Hurricane Helene FEMA and the weak Federal response

[Maxmars]

THIS is why I love this community.

We all observe, we all agree and disagree, we all focus objectively in differing ways; and yet we CAN still talk about it.  Why?  Maybe something that helps is the undercurrent that this is not the place for partisan sniping, performance games about ego-bashing, Hollywood/Madison thought viruses, and the abject stupidity of "If you don't agree with me, you're the enemy."  I leave that to the Facebooks, and TikToks of the world.

Putnam6, you are correct, and the argument I offer is not specifically meant to be a "lesson" (I'm not so smart that I can teach lessons, and I don't presume this is anything more valuable than an opinion... my opinion.)  I recognize you in respect and honor... you deserve that for your words, and the part of your heart that they reflect.  Were I not to show that, I would be at best, insinuating disrespect, or at worst insult... (again that's my opinion.)  Nothing I say here is directed specifically to you, nor is it a description of you personally in any specific way.

In my opinion, this is a matter of great importance, all of us should learn from it, which means - to any adult, that you mustn't just satisfy yourself with "being told about it" by a partisan story-teller or some modern "news" service... we must observe and think on it ourselves... (otherwise it's just indoctrination, propaganda, and a sheepish surrender of your mind to the sanctioned 'speakers' of your 'side.')

There is anxiety, agitation, and dare I say it anger over the conduct and behavior of the federal authorities; exacerbated by the attitude of entitlement and unquestionability with which they prance around.  I admit, it seems like the people who have been "chosen" to lead these organizations were chosen precisely to be what they seem... committed to themselves and their party FIRST... while otherwise putting on a show, rendering a performance, and meanwhile "getting away with" whatever they can to serve them or the party.  "Appearances."

But I have to admit, I my intent for my chosen form of exchange with you, is truly not pinned on any hatred of politics. 

I (personally) LOVE politics as a topic of study, I LOVE political discussion as a venue to exchange thoughts and perspectives, to learn and expand my understanding of the ideas of others both friendly and not...

But we sometimes muddle our feelings within our considerations, focusing on 'personalities' instead of politics, we hate a person, instead of the actual issues we should care about.  We forget that promoting an idea or perspective doesn't actually require humiliating or diminishing "some person"... that just "feels good" to do because it resolves an emotional need.

However, the real world is untouched by how any 'individual' feels.  Our problem aren't hinged on someone thinking differently than us.  And we all think differently from one another... it's one of those things that makes us both strong and weak at the same time. 

In American "politics" "Kamala Harris" is a construct, "Biden" is a construct,... and so is "Trump."  These people are "products" - and they know this.  They are both crafted partisan "imagery" and personal partisan "performances"... that is not "us."  Despite the party and its' attendant theatric machinery being hard at work to convince everyone they are "us" as they tell us what to think, and what we are.  

So I resist, and call out when I see partisanship included as if it were a "vital component" of an issue which requires actual resolution... something they almost never do.  It's not a "popularity" competition just because that's how they offer it up. 

There's no intent to make anyone's kvetching any less poignant or meaningful, I just try to steer towards the actual emergent issue, and let the popularity angle sit aside, where it belongs, as an aside; a literal "and another thing" matter. 

I am aware that becomes tiresome... and I do apologize if it seems that means I disagree... when very often I actually don't.

Every time we have a crisis, these people demonstrate for all to see, exactly "who they are" and just how explicitly "they are not us."  Their 'reporting' media actually engages to "convince" rather than report.  This represents a problem in governance... a real one.

I always thought Trump (and many others) were wrong in their assertion that there is a "swamp" in our government... it's not a swamp... it's a moat.  They've been deliberately crafting it for decades, all while pretending they weren't...

FEMA leadership is just now standing out - they likely think they are 'regretfully' visible... but they won't change now... the DOJ have become the moat masters, and the latest tools of oppression have all been brought to bear.  Yeah... that really sucks...

But in the meantime, all I want to remember to make the first matter of importance... there are people missing, hurt, and damaged...
  
Or is it always to be only used in the bashing of our political opponents, the glory of the preposterously postured virtue of 'public figures,' and the creation of bullshit "charity-money funnels" for middlemen 'players?'

And then there's unintentionally echoed activism.  Activism is a poison to almost ALL sincere dialogue.

Where dialogue is people talking and listening alternately to each other, activism is a person on a soapbox with a loudspeaker yelling scripted lines, no listening. 
Activism has no place here... this is not the place for 'calls to action' or 'rallying support for a cause of moment.' 
It wasn't designed that way. This isn't theater... Facebook, X, etc., those are built to be theater...  We are more like a think-tank than a "show."

Sadly, many political discussions manifest wanton mimicry of activism... as if that were an argumentative "point."

Using it like that can cause actual harm to our community... if not immediately, eventually.  (I learned that from ATS' recent history.)

Anyway, sorry about another TLDR from me...  

[putnam6]

I might be quoting myself here, but I stand by my thoughts. There is nearly no true transparency from FEMA about where its funds went, and I think they are playing word games and misdirection's of showing where the money went. Public parties don't have to show how they use money, but most do and in cases like Helene will provide those facts if asked. 

There are also too many cases of money magically showing up when pet projects need funding with zero public disclosure or discussions about how or where these billions came from. Now it looks like FEMA might have been using the migrant crisis to launder money from one hand to another.

Now to the Civil War comment. I'm not saying that we will go into a full on "Brother against Brother" civil war, but the chances of the public shooting at and possibly killing federal worker that are taking, or seemingly taking, supplies set aside for disaster relief get higher and higher with each story/report about how FEMA is acting as the bad guy in preventing the public from helping out in rescues and/or providing relief to those that have been victimized by Helene. This administration's slow/delayed response doesn't help the situation either.

Something will should be aware of but knowing the people of the areas affected Im not so sure there will be anything overt or even disruptive. They will collectively improvise, adapt, and overcome as they always have, and they will vote for and support
those who didn't leave them just when they needed the government's financial and logistical help. They don't burn loot or riot 
they don't crap where they live. First, watch the polls and the early vote totals in the affected counties and states.

[727Sky]

Since WW2 the united states government have been able to manipulate the weather... fact... look it up... since the 1960's we've been able to control and even weaponize the weather... fact...look it up. And in the early 1970's the US congress put a forth a bill to regulate weather manipulators.... fact... look it up. Now residents of North Carolina are wondering if the US government had anything to do with the massive hurricane that just destroyed their state.

due to the devastation the postal service is closed so no mail in ballots not to mention no electricity or gas or food for the mostly republican voting area...

[guyfriday]

"And in the early 1970's the US congress put a forth a bill to regulate weather manipulators.... fact... look it up."

Off hand here, but you wouldn't happen to have that documentation anywhere?

The issue with Hurricanes is the vast amount of energy needed to influence one is beyond any state/country's ability at present. A tornado can be achieved, but a Hurricane is a totally different matter. If we had that level of tech no one would make a move against the US and that boarder crisis would become nonexistent. 

Sure I know Greene made a similar statement, but just as everyone else that brings this up, she presented no evidence that anyone can control a Hurricane.

[727Sky]

Off hand here, but you wouldn't happen to have that documentation anywhere?

I have no link or idea other than it is true that during the Vietnam conflict seeding clouds for rain and many other things were tried such as agent orange used over extremely large area.

I hate a site to speak with authority on a subject without links.  Redacted is good for some things but way off the mark with other topics IMO.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w...NzCThu5Zrw

The Environmental Modification Convention (ENMOD), formally the Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques, is an international treaty prohibiting the military or other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects. It opened for signature on 18 May 1977 in Geneva and entered into force on 5 October 1978.
The Convention bans weather warfare, which is the use of weather modification techniques for the purposes of inducing damage or destruction. The Convention on Biological Diversity of 2010 would also ban some forms of weather modification or geoengineering.[sup][2][/sup]

[putnam6]

THIS is why I love this community.

  
Im all about the discussion of the facts and listening to all rational thoughts and ideas, sometimes I have strong opinions, especially in situations like we are seeing in Western NC.  

and yes I felt the same anxiousness and distrust during Katrina and FEMA's response, as  I reiterated the safety and well-
being of its citizens is a top priority of a government. If they failed during Katina they seem to be making some of the same mistakes 19 years later, with one crucial difference New Orleans had Bush's pledge of 10.7 billion towards Katrina's rebuild we will need similar measures for Helene. Bare Minimum, this is not getting the airtime it deserves and it is directly tied to the proximity of the election.   

We should all agree that COVID and its aftermath likely sunk Trump's chances in 2020 how is he seemingly even more popular now?

Ergo somebody somewhere made bad decision after bad decision and more and more America doesn't want that group making decisions anymore. Ironically that same group has made many normal world events politically charged. LIke the marketing and budgeting of the Ukrainian war, where initially we were blasted by blue and yellow flags, whie ironically Myanmar has been fighting for its freedom since before Ukraine flared up hot. Or how subtly the WNBA seemingly has a preference on ESPN where the site used to default to other sports I follow and would usually show up first.

We haven't even discussed Biden's bizarre first-time presser in the White House briefing room, where Biden reassured America, Kamala and he was in full agreement on all decisions of his administration. LOL as the encumbent VEEP and her campaign no doubt groaned about. 

Essentially throwing her under the bus, and not allowing her to separate herself from Biden

Forget the other pressing issues as well as the noise thats never happened in the world of American politics. I know Clinton never said that about Al Gore. 

So your post wasn't too long for me, this is how you get know people instead of guessing who they are and why they think a certain way. We have to find common ground a little mutual respect and learn to tolerate each other. 

These topics need to be discussed here as we need it turn off the emotional rhetoric and rationally learn to live with each other again.

---

[font] On top of we have another cat 3-4 Hurricane Milton thats tracking toward the upper Florida peninsula's Gulf Coast FEMA isn't financially or logistically ready for the next Wednesday or Thursday[/font]

=AZWH4d8eOBNodlxN47nWG5uKf0CzeC8x2LNz5CVx1aQpGWEDM2dzHQB2ctJQIOiOdDlmocP15W0N7ShUkaKPEiqZcnYp8-PjZ10R9BmMxr2ZsfEb8EPNQe4t9J0-JHfLjtYkGXym3ZURxOgIiH0QG-ZdquwB_ZCr-lBw7elZ4DZ1-IKCtzoR-PbmG6SIn2nPNFwmvXxRce52ni34rd1mroGo&__tn__=-UC%2CP-R]Reed Timmer Extreme Meteorologist 
  · 
The HMON model shows a category 4 Hurricane Milton taking the worst track possible for the Tampa, FL area. The exact track of Milton is CRUCIAL for who will see the worst storm surge. You do not want this track in the Tampa area

[AngryOldBrewer]

Pardon my ignorance, as I try not to venture into the political arena, but didn't Republican governors from most of the states say the response from FEMA has been great and are currently turning aid away until needed again? I think Lindsey Graham came out and said the same thing.

I can say in all honesty and my opinion, isn't this the wrong time to create or share conspiracy theories about a devasting storm that killed a few hundred people? Seems gross that either side would use this as a stumping ground or PR opportunity. At all. Guess that's why I don't venture too far into the political arena. Not even waiting for the bodies to get cold....

[putnam6]

Pardon my ignorance, as I try not to venture into the political arena, but didn't Republican governors from most of the states say the response from FEMA has been great and are currently turning aid away until needed again? I think Lindsey Graham came out and said the same thing.

I can say in all honesty and my opinion, isn't this the wrong time to create or share conspiracy theories about a devasting storm that killed a few hundred people? Seems gross that either side would use this as a stumping ground or PR opportunity. At all. Guess that's why I don't venture too far into the political arena. Not even waiting for the bodies to get cold....

Respectfully I'm sorry it upsets your sensitivities and invades your safe space AOB, but people are still missing(over 200). As I've mentioned these are areas and towns Ive worked in and have known people in for the last 30-plus years. The stories I hear from them are different than what our politicians may be saying

I fail to see how discussing the FEMA failures on a platform like DI that has what a few hundred members is any different than the same topic is being bandied about with millions of members on X/Twitter Facebook, etc. 

Regardless considering the tepid responses here I'll likely move on back to X and Discord to discuss this and other topics

If you think those people in Georgia are pleased with thier $750 FEMA check per household you are sorely mistaken, not to mention what do you expect a governor to say? To a great extent, they are at the mercy of what the Feds send them. For a better perspective here's the thread on X.com take a look and then decide if they all are just lying because of political reasons

https://x.com/search?q=%23FEMAFailure&sr...arch_click

Lindsay Graham is a RINO and a political sleaze but go on and respect and believe his views

But the main issue is western NC and those still missing and those isolated, as thankfully the other areas are more accessible. 

The point is we have Mayorkas saying FEMA is broke after 3 months ago saying it was ready for Hurricane season and the link below where the White House asserts FEMA funds were not used for migrants when earlier they said funds were used.

These are the facts and the discussion about the topic isn't upsetting the recovery hell if nothing else it is spurring a more robust response like from Dr Phil and Samaritans Purse a relief effort COMPLETELY independent from the FEMA effort.

ie exposure and discussion on this is crucial and no different than the Katrina response

https://x.com/ImMeme0/status/1842900002353361365

 https://x.com/haveuconsidered/status/184...6653314433

 lastly, if you made it this far here's an article about the political aspects of hurricanes and natural disasters from the Ashville Citizen you know as in Ashville NC virtually ground zero 

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news...499421007/

 
WASHINGTON - Another presidential election blown around by a hurricane.
In terms of politics, Vice President Kamala Harris and President Joe Biden are hoping that recovery from Hurricane Helene will resemble the federal government's response to Hurricane Sandy in 2012 - a fairly smooth process that did credit to the last Democratic-led White House in a presidential election season.

 
Disaster politics is nothing newDisaster politics are a staple of presidential politics, from the post-world war flu epidemic of 1918-1920 to the start of the COVID pandemic in 2020.
 
After all, fall campaigns take place in the heart of flu season, although any disaster - and the government response to it - can change the shape of American politics.
 
During the Great Mississippi River Flood of 1927, President Calvin Coolidge appointed a prominent official to head up relief efforts: Commerce Secretary Herbert Hoover.
 
Already famous for food supplies to Belgium during the world war, Hoover rode flood relief all the way to the White House (where he eventually ran into an economic calamity known as the Great Depression, although that's another story.)
President Lyndon Johnson created a template for modern presidents in 1965 when he traveled to Louisiana to survey the damage wrought by Hurricane Betsy. LBJ assumed personal control of recovery operations.
"
Presidents - as chief executives and the only leaders selected by the entire country - are expected to take actions that will protect and help Americans," said political scientist Lara Brown, author of "Jockeying for the American Presidency: The Political Opportunism of Aspirants."
 
"When disasters occur," she said, "Americans look to presidents to see how closely their promises of compassion, protection, and assistance match their deeds."

[AngryOldBrewer]

You yourself made it political in the opening thread where you mention FEMA and the Biden administration. Now you tell me that I shouldn't make it political or mention FEMA? So I offered you my opinion to the contrary. I guess I apologize if it affected your sensitivities or invaded your personal space. My bad. However RINO's or not, the affected are receiving help. The ones not receiving help are trapped behind a100 miles of missing road, not minor repairs, but completely gone. No infrastructure to speak of , all roads closed .I am really close with a few brewers and owners in the Ashville area, and our industry is rallying around several collaborations with 100% of the proceeds going to affected communities in Ashville and other places. Already have a couple hundred signed up. Don't tell me I don't know, those people lost everything, business and home, all of those people lost everything. So ya, a bit sensitive about it. If you don't want to have politics leak into a thread, don't bring up politics.

[Maxmars]

Pardon my ignorance, as I try not to venture into the political arena, but didn't Republican governors from most of the states say the response from FEMA has been great and are currently turning aid away until needed again? I think Lindsey Graham came out and said the same thing.

I can say in all honesty and my opinion, isn't this the wrong time to create or share conspiracy theories about a devasting storm that killed a few hundred people? Seems gross that either side would use this as a stumping ground or PR opportunity. At all. Guess that's why I don't venture too far into the political arena. Not even waiting for the bodies to get cold....

The deaths and damage are not about any one party.  Unless this is the "United States of Democrat America" the failure of it's agencies is totally bipartisan.

While you are well-entitled to your opinion, I would call attention to the effect of rendering the opinion of another into something that shouldn't be voiced?  Why? Because it is 'inappropriate?"  Too soon?  I'm not sure I understand.  People are in pain and and under great threat... and we shouldn't talk about it until "it's over?"

I've seen this similar admonishments against consideration before... usually from governmental agencies trying to inch away from scrutiny. 
But I might be misunderstanding... to what "conspiracy theory" are you referring?  

And how is that related to the politics you bring up?