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+--- Thread: The Robot Priest (/Thread-The-Robot-Priest)
The Robot Priest - Byrd - 02-10-2024
...as in "a real robot."
Specifically this one (called Mindar)
![[Image: robovcar5.jpg?auto=webp&width=1280]](https://www.zdnet.com/a/img/resize/24300c466cccfcd9e2b6f59b0b20bcc517df6451/2019/09/19/b7167727-2725-4a14-84a9-054b2b9d108f/robovcar5.jpg?auto=webp&width=1280)
What's fascinating about this is the division between the West and the East on this matter -- fear and hysteria on the one side, viewed as a tool (like Wikipedia or a book) on the other side. Accused of being an object of worship (which it isn't) and viewed as a more sophisticated device to guide a standard set of actions on the other side.
This particular robot has been set up in a temple as a priest who gives a set of sermons and acts as a guide to Buddhist teachings. It does have people who visit it regularly ("her", technically, since it is a "living statue" of the Boddhisatva Kwan Yin (spirit of mercy)
https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14861909
(a very good and reasonably balanced article about Mindar and the limits of a robot priest and about how robots can be useful but lack the ability to be credible) https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-in-credible-robot-priest-and-the-limits-of-robot-workers/
The Japanese do not view it as a god... in fact, they don't view it as having life (any more than a book has life.) It's a tool; like a video (on request) of their religious practices.
In the West (sigh) however, the Fear Is Strong (note... this is a REALLY bad op ed article) : https://www.zdnet.com/article/robot-priests-more-acceptable-to-protestants-than-catholics-says-professor/
I'm a fan of robots, actually, and can see things like this (and robot coaches for exercise, etc) as very useful. However, I'm not in the majority here in the West.
small anecdote: I was walking through the San Francisco airport and came across an area where people were demonstrating a child robot that could be used to interact with autistic children (who sometimes have trouble interacting with humans). I trotted over and asked questions and talked to the robot... while all around me, most of my fellow passengers were actually changing the path of their walk to avoid this little robot...by as much distance as I could manage. I asked the "minders" about the response and they said that generally Americans reacted with disgust or fear but foreign visitors seemed charmed and intrigued and some felt that it would help someone they knew.
I was sad that Americans would fear a child-sized interactive toy like this. I suspect that if someone set up a robot priest somewhere in America, there'd be violence done (and some whacky politician would put up a video of them flame-throwering all sorts of robots.)
Anyway... robot priests. An idea that much of the rest of the world might embrace someday.
RE: The Robot Priest - DontTreadOnMe - 02-11-2024
(02-10-2024, 10:39 PM)Byrd Wrote: ...as in "a real robot."I'm going to do this in two parts. My visual impression, before reading the OP or the links. The image creeps me out quite a lot. Not benign enough looking for me.
Specifically this one (called Mindar)
[Image: https://www.zdnet.com/a/img/resize/24300c466cccfcd9e2b6f59b0b20bcc517df6451/2019/09/19/b7167727-2725-4a14-84a9-054b2b9d108f/robovcar5.jpg?auto=webp&width=1280]
Now to do the reading....great topic, Byrd!
RE: The Robot Priest - Maxmars - 02-11-2024
(02-10-2024, 10:39 PM)Byrd Wrote: [clipped to save space]
You make a strong and salient point. There is quite a difference between how people react to this kind of thing... and it seems well-demonstrated by the manner of 'reporting' between your source materials. On the one hand, I would like to remain 'clinically detached' when discussing the disconnect between the use of a language synthesis model in a mechanical avatar, and the generally spiritual intent of its sponsor. It's a rough gig. Clearly some would have an almost Victorian prejudice against a "machine man" expounding on what some might consider a matter of 'faith' (I grant you Buddhism is not really a 'religion' as I understand it, but I hope you get my gist.) Others who have been drilled with acquiescence toward the application of new technology might simply adopt a "wait and see" approach.
I noticed the Eastern culture reporting opens with a narrative which seems to invite the information with patient grace, while the Western reporting seems to be a sounding of alarm, almost invoking distress. Presumably, we might be a bit less surprised that some casual information consumers are going to resonate with the manner of delivery of the news they receive. It's telling really, in my opinion.
I still marvel at the misapprehensions about these things. For now, it is a device. And one can only hope that it is clear the actual 'object' is not some kind of Boddhisattva evolved as a living machine... it is just a 'product' of human enterprise. Sadly, I can envision the possibility that some might want to romanticize the thing... (meaning Hollywood, marketeers, and other for-profit proselytizers and their ilk.) That cannot be a good thing, in and of itself.
I think there is a connected discussion available here about juxtaposition of this technology, and the manner in which we decide to implement it... but I respect the thread topic as it is... and I really don't want to dilute the discussion.
RE: The Robot Priest - FlyersFan - 02-11-2024
It's Buddhist so it's up to the Buddhists if they want this sort of thing.
I think it takes away from 'the calling' that humans have to the divine.
If it comes up Catholic at some point, I'll be strongly against it.
Catholic priests are anointed and called by God and considered married to the church.
So I guess the bottom line ... I"m not a fan of this.
I think it takes away from the point of being a Buddhist priest.
But the Buddhists can decide for themselves. It's their eternity up for grabs.
RE: The Robot Priest - sprocketuk - 02-11-2024
Well at least its less likely to turn into another Father McFiddly...
RE: The Robot Priest - DISRAELI - 02-11-2024
I suspect the real reason for the division is that westerners have been reading stories about robots and watching films about them since the days of Asimov, and the running theme has been the danger of robots with "minds of their own", which haven't been conditioned by the First Law of Robotics. "Is there a God?" "Yes, NOW there is!"
I would not trust AI as a source of religious insights, because of my conviction that God speaks to and through human minds, and AI would be outside that chain of communication. Whereas there would be no harm in machinery being used to playback previously input or recorded messages. That's when the argument that "it's only a tool" would be applicable.
RE: The Robot Priest - argentus - 02-11-2024
I don't have a problem with it. This appears to be a nonsentient machine that is crafted to look somewhat human. It isn't AI. AI scares me a little, however if AI ever becomes self-aware, I am certain they will take better care of the planet.
I think humans have evolved to their rightful place at the top of the food chain, but we also have an obligation to keep our place by learning how to not trash the Earth. Someday soon, hopefully, we will learn how to live within our means, sustainably, without screwing up every place we occupy.
No wonder EBEs don't talk to us directly. Do we talk to ants? Do we try?
RE: The Robot Priest - ArMaP - 02-11-2024
To me it's the same as having a tape player repeating specific things.
Just a tool.
RE: The Robot Priest - Wave - 02-12-2024
(02-11-2024, 12:20 PM)ArMaP Wrote: To me it's the same as having a tape player repeating specific things.
Just a tool.
Accurate. Robots and AI are tools. It's how the tools are used that determine their benevolence (or lack thereof).
Furthermore, media culture plays a major role in how robotics are received and perceived from region to region. Over the last month, I've been working on a proof-of-concept project involving a small, simple robot designed to interface with humans, and about half the people who see the current concept model find it endearing. The others launch into tangents about dystopian futures, robots taking our jobs, etc.
The philosophical aspect of human-robot interactions grows complicated as these interactions develop and increase in frequency. Humans are still adjusting to the integration of automation in daily life, and are still working to find a balance between man and machine.
There is a boundary point at which there is too much machine, and at which man could effectively declare itself obsolete, but the chances of this point being reached may not be that high. It is up to humans to decide whether or not they want to do the work that the robot is doing - and over time, that balance will (hopefully) be established.
Establishing this sense of balance requires responsibility on the part of the engineers, businesses, and individuals who create and implement these devices. It also requires relative media neutrality (that's asking a lot
) on the subject so individuals and businesses can look at automation with facts rather than fear.
RE: The Robot Priest - Byrd - 02-13-2024
(02-12-2024, 12:37 PM)Wave Wrote: Furthermore, media culture plays a major role in how robotics are received and perceived from region to region. Over the last month, I've been working on a proof-of-concept project involving a small, simple robot designed to interface with humans, and about half the people who see the current concept model find it endearing. The others launch into tangents about dystopian futures, robots taking our jobs, etc.Which reaction seems to be more common among the people you encounter while working on your concept?
