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+--- Thread: A Culture in Collapse (/Thread-A-Culture-in-Collapse)
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A Culture in Collapse - DontTreadOnMe - 01-08-2024
Not a very cheery title, that is for sure.
Not something that is easy to read or talk about, but it certainly should be talked about.
I think silence is the one of the tool of those who want this collapse to happen.
Let's talk about the bizarre, the fringe, the noise...but let's not look at the big picture.
Quote:In the last six months, we have borne witness to many iconic moments evidencing the collapse of American culture.A Culture in Collapse American civilization has been turned upside down, and we have a rendezvous soon with the once unthinkable and unimaginable.
The signs are everywhere and cover the gamut of politics, the economy, education, social life, popular culture, foreign policy, and the military. These symptoms of decay share common themes.
Our descent is self-induced; it is not a symptom of a foreign attack or subterfuge. Our erosion is not the result of poverty and want, but of leisure and excess. We are not suffering from existential crises of famine, plague, or the collapse of our grid and fuel sources. Prior, far poorer, and war-torn generations now seem far better off than what we are becoming.
I guess I just don't know what to say about Mr. Hanson's article.
It is unimaginable.
RE: A Culture in Collapse - xpert11 - 01-09-2024
Like the 1960s, socially and politically turbulent times are extremely tough to navigate. Aside from his wrongdoing and his enigma character, Nixon faced such rips in the surf. He was carried out to sea like the rest of the U.S. and other parts of the globe.
I lack confidence in New Zealand's political leaders to solve the country's vast and mounting issues. Astronomical living costs, including housing, lousy education, and structural economic problems, are strangling New Zealand.
Also, the politics around climate change resembles sectarianism. Elements of our societies swapped Jesus for CO2 emissions, changing the climate. So, often, the same people who hate their countries' colonial histories desire to "civilize " the climate.
RE: A Culture in Collapse - Halfswede - 01-09-2024
There is a general principle of process in the universe called formation-stasis-degeneration-destruction. Every thing, idea, material -- literally everything has followed this process. Sometimes it is a localized process and sometimes a bigger one. I think we can see where American culture is in the process and it will have to keep going until the extreme before turning.
As mentioned above, we swapped the spiritual civilization for the material and yeah, we have neat gadgets, but are people happier, healthier, and more fulfilled (i.e. better) for it.
People will have to genuinely, as individuals, return to kindness, and reject selfish, indulgent degeneracy, for the environment to change.
Society has made a push for everyone to embrace their "uniqueness" and indulge in whatever feels best. That process by definition is selfish. It says do what YOU want when YOU feel like it because it seems good to YOU. A selfish-natured process is inherently going to result in more and more self-centered thinking and action.
RE: A Culture in Collapse - Kwaka - 01-17-2024
(01-08-2024, 11:54 PM)DontTreadOnMe Wrote: but let's not look at the big picture.
It's like watching a bunch of different bacteria all in a petri dish fighting it out, growing, adapting and dying. In the cycles of empire, effective management it past its prime. It is an impressive level of fraud used to get Biden in play. With this team better at ripping things off than the public will, could see it was not going to end well for the American public.
Longer term, government turning it's back on god and the social order books like the bible provide has lead towards a more self centered 'do as thy will' cultural norm. As psychopathic tendencies become more culturally accepted, more things get broken along the way.
There is a long history of things getting busted up on this planet for a long time as survival of the fittest got us here. Some of it has a place as competition can help improve things, does have a cost in some sports more than others.
If most of us can do our bit to help keep things going, hopefully there are enough of us to find a way through the challenges going on.
RE: A Culture in Collapse - Byrd - 01-17-2024
This is an op-ed piece, not fact-checked by a publisher. Let's do the publisher a favor and fact-check it.
Quote:As long as interest rates were de facto zero, both parties ran up gargantuan debt. Now the national debt has hit $34 trillion.
The author doesn't say how he determined that "interest rates were de facto zero" since interest rates have NEVER been zero. He seems to have scanned the information from the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) ... the Federal Reserve... without honestly understanding what's meant by it. These rates go up when inflation goes up; it's a measure to curb a ruinous potential.
Quote:Interest rates have soared from de facto zero and are on a trajectory to 5.5%—meaning that the interest on the debt, in theory, in the not too distant future will require 20 percent of the annual budget, squeezing out both entitlements and defense.
Forbes (a very conservative publication) has this more informative article on interest rates and how the Fed is using them to avoid rampant inflation, recession, and other economic damage (note that this goes back WAY before Trump took office) : https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/fed-funds-rate-history/
Quote:Is the goal massive “redistribution” by ensuring “equity” by gouging the middle class and rich?
Again, no idea how our government works. These taxes aren't suddenly levied by whim, but rather have to pass through the hands of our Congresscritters -- and more locally, through state and local lawmakers. They aren't just handed down from on high in stone tablets. There are two main parties controlling this, and for much of the past decade the Republicans were in control -- depending, of course, on where you live and who you voted in.
The author needs to look at legislation and who's blocking or supporting what actions. Blanket statements like the ones that are presented in this op-ed make for dramatic reading but don't hold up well on closer examination.
(have to trot off on an errand... will be back in a few hours.)
RE: A Culture in Collapse - Byrd - 01-17-2024
...returning to the piece.
Quote:Confusion reigns among the public over why the Biden administration fled from Afghanistan, leaving behind billions of dollars of munitions and equipment in the hands of Taliban terrorists.
The war in Afghanistan was never very popular, and the author apparently didn't doublecheck some of the dates.
In any case, it was the Trump administration that brokered this deal:
Quote:(from Wikipedia) In February 2020, the Trump administration and the Taliban, without the participation of the then Afghan government, signed the United States–Taliban deal in Doha, Qatar,[sup][7][/sup] which stipulated fighting restrictions for both the U.S. and the Taliban, and provided for the withdrawal of all NATO forces from Afghanistan in return for the Taliban's counter-terrorism commitments.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_U.S._troop_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan
You can look up what was left behind via military sources (7.12 billion), however, “Nearly all equipment used by U.S. military forces in Afghanistan was either retrograded or destroyed prior to our withdrawal and is not part of the ‘$7.12 billion’ figure cited in the report.”
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html
In short, our military leaders (who determined how and when things were left) are not stupid people.
You can check timeline and so forth (including the multiple troop withdrawals under Trump) in this document: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf
Yes, I agree that the final stage was chaotic (and could have been handled much better) but without access to all the information I'm not going to hastily lay blame.
Quote:And why did Biden signal to Russia when preparing an invasion of Ukraine that our reaction would depend on the magnitude of Putin’s offensive? Why has military recruitment cratered, shorting the Pentagon of thousands of soldiers?
Well... let's see...
To the first one, I think announcing to Putin that if he goes in shooting we'll enable his opponents to shoot right back is simply standard diplomatic exchange, nu?
And to the second, the military isn't as good a way out of poverty and poor education as it was
fifty years ago. More to the point, here's what the military's recruiting chiefs say the problem is:
Quote:All four men cited problems common to recruiting efforts across the services. They noted the percentage of American youths who qualify for military service has dropped, the COVID-19 pandemic limited the ability of recruiters to interact with potential recruits, the U.S. economy is booming with low unemployment, and the number of adult "influencers" with experience in the military continues to drop.
Source (literally from the horse's mouth here) https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3610846/chiefs-discuss-military-recruiting-challenges-at-committee-hearing/#:~:text=They%20noted%20the%20percentage%20of,in%20the%20military%20continues%20to
The author continues, apparently thinking that the Middle East situation is something that just "happened" and is not the result of thousands of years of infighting, bad blood, and various countries (including the US) supporting this ally or that one for their own agendas. The charges he lays against the US can equally be laid against Canada, the UK, Germany, and other allies.
And then we get to this:
Quote:Why did our retired four stars with disdain violate the uniform code of military justice by serially and publicly trashing the commander in chief?
At this point, every one reading this who served in the military is probably going "WTF???" The "uniform code of military justice" only applies to ACTIVE MILITARY -- not retired military. Note that none of the leaders violated this policy while serving with Trump. They behaved professionally. After retirement, when they are civilians, they are free to speak their minds and in the past other retired military leaders have done so with other presidents.
They are free to do this with Biden as well, once they retire.
...and so forth.
Valid points are mixed with bits gleaned from sources that seem to promote misinterpretations (like the "uniform code of military justice" bit) and assembled into a dramatic piece designed to alarm conservative readers who are not willing to stop and analyze it by looking up original sources.
I don't think it's very good or very valid. I think the author needs to recheck his sources and go back to original material... and to get a better understanding on what the Fed does and how our government operates.
And meanwhile, I also think that everyone needs to make sure their voter registration is good and current and go vote, particularly in state and local elections (AFTER you read up on the issues, please.)
...your mileage, of course, may vary.
RE: A Culture in Collapse - KTemplar - 03-21-2024
(01-09-2024, 07:16 AM)Halfswede Wrote: There is a general principle of process in the universe called formation-stasis-degeneration-destruction. Every thing, idea, material -- literally everything has followed this process. Sometimes it is a localized process and sometimes a bigger one. I think we can see where American culture is in the process and it will have to keep going until the extreme before turning.
As mentioned above, we swapped the spiritual civilization for the material and yeah, we have neat gadgets, but are people happier, healthier, and more fulfilled (i.e. better) for it.
People will have to genuinely, as individuals, return to kindness, and reject selfish, indulgent degeneracy, for the environment to change.
Society has made a push for everyone to embrace their "uniqueness" and indulge in whatever feels best. That process by definition is selfish. It says do what YOU want when YOU feel like it because it seems good to YOU. A selfish-natured process is inherently going to result in more and more self-centered thinking and action.
Wish I could star yours and Kwakas replies.
Both are spot on!
Your four principles of the universe remind me of The Fourth Turning. A fascinating read.
Praying for the world myself, but feel it may be too late. I’ll pray anyways to try and save souls.
RE: A Culture in Collapse - Waterglass - 03-31-2024
(01-08-2024, 11:54 PM)DontTreadOnMe Wrote: Not a very cheery title, that is for sure.
Not something that is easy to read or talk about, but it certainly should be talked about.
I think silence is the one of the tool of those who want this collapse to happen.
Let's talk about the bizarre, the fringe, the noise...but let's not look at the big picture.
A Culture in Collapse American civilization has been turned upside down, and we have a rendezvous soon with the once unthinkable and unimaginable.
I guess I just don't know what to say about Mr. Hanson's article.
It is unimaginable.
Can we now write that Satan is in the White House after Bidens push of Transgenderism on of all days Easter Sunday. This guy is so way over the top I now wonder as to just what his wife is all about along with her mental state of mind as they do have grandchildren.
Is this all from Biden being refused communion by Father Robert Morey whom I have personally met and had him visit my home in the summer of 2021. father Morey didnt bad mouth him but alluded to that said guy has some other dark stuff in his closets. Father Morey is a former US Attorney as a prosecuter for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
Father said to simply pray for them all as they seem to be under a spiritual attack. So now we have fish swimming in circles until they die off Florida in the ocean
Scientists baffled over hundreds of fish 'spinning and whirling' dead onto South Florida shores
https://abcnews.go.com/US/scientists-baffled-hundreds-fish-spinning-whirling-dead-south/story?id=108655356
RE: A Culture in Collapse - Lysergic - 03-31-2024
The sky is falling again?
RE: A Culture in Collapse - Maxmars - 03-31-2024
While I can understand the angst and frustration embedded within the text. I chafe at the 'characterizations' in the narrative, all based upon one main concept: "culture."
Culture is a collection of "qualities" that constitute a description of that which makes a group of people distinctly different from one another. And therein we find the schism between what the 'popular' (mainstream) characterization of "America" is often presented as, and the reality we live in.
"America" distinguishes itself as being a voluntary joining of many groups of people, not just irrespective of the groups individual character, or "culture" - but seeking strength for society by how its blending reflects common 'nationality.' America was an 'experiment' because no nation had ever formed embracing that paradigm.
To pretend that America has "a" culture, denies that each group within the whole has any particular cultural identity which contributes to our social strength. America is a collection of cultures. Unless the author defines culture differently, the premise of the complaint is lost. The author doesn't define culture... only using the identity as "American" as if it were a specific 'flavor' of culture.
Putting that aside, the simple response is "Sure, there are many (many) disjointed 'changes' which have been inexplicably 'fostered' within our society." In some cases, the word 'fostered' can be rightly replaced with 'socially engineered' or even 'forced.' In that light we must explore the 'entity or entities' which did the actual engineering, who actually crafted the narratives, and who cooperatively amplified them. Extract the celebrities who were used to 'flavor' the changes, the institutions which 'promoted' or 'lobbied' to institute the changes... therein lies the true investigative threads to follow...
Unfortunately, I would not endorse the content of the text in anyway other than an opinion, seemingly crafted to echo the many frustrations people are suffering due to the aforementioned "social engineering" and celebrity status abuse. It's an opinion piece... rather subjective, and while chock full of examples of 'issues' not really 'informing' in nature. And frankly, some of the factual statements are, as some have noted, problematic.
I find it a bit sad, since the overall context of it is meant to expose the sad state of "America" and her damaged nature. But it seems a bit misinformed in many details, and standing by virtue of the pedigree of the author...
America is stronger than the author expresses, specifically because of her nature as a 'collection' of cultures, and hope is never - ever- truly lost.
