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+--- Thread: So very disappointed... (/Thread-So-very-disappointed)
So very disappointed... - Maxmars - 11-06-2024
I recently was fed a 'short' by the algorithm... you know which one I mean...
I will include the link after this little tirade...
Our host Bill Maher expresses utter disappointment at the statistics.. which include:
36% of Republicans think that freedom of the press does more harm than good...
Clearly those 36% have awoken to the reality that "Freedom of the Press" is now in fact a virtue signal. A convenient contrivance to flaunt the freedom to promote what you like and vilify what you don't. When Freedom of the Press was first ensconced in our culture, the "Press" was a very different thing... even as long ago as the 1950s... those words meant what the current institution's exemplars most clearly do not embody. That 36% remembers well what journalistic reporting actually is. So "no," it is the perceived state of the Press that centers this statistic... not the Republicans. Way to make the point of the problem... prestige has to be earned before it's relied upon; the press is no exception. Today's press is a different animal... and it has most definitely done real harm, saying "Freedom of the Press!" over and over.
Only 61% of Republicans think [freedom of the press] is necessary.
That's the hopeful 61% that still rely on existing one-sided news. They hope, beyond reason that there will always be a balancing power in the different "news" sources. If they knew that 'balance' is far from the point of today's journalism, that number might change... This is all in the "press' wheelhouse" to correct. Perhaps 'activist' journalism does not serve the institution, but instead fractures it? I don't know, I'm not a journalist.
Only 30% of millennials thinks it's essential to live in a democracy.
Who's been teaching them about democracy? You? The television? Activist teachers? YouTube?
What would you otherwise expect from such a situation.
This is what people get for trusting the government with 'education' and then the Internet.
Two decades ago one in sixteen thought that "army rule" would be a good way to run the country, now it's one in six.
I hate sloppy poll data... it renders the result meaningless...
Who are you asking? Republican millennials?
That's a very specific demographic... Who paid for this research, I wonder?
Is army rule a metaphor for martial law?
What context was brought to this question, if 'army rule' is the wording used? (Is there any other narrowing in this poll?)
Among the young and affluent [the army rule preference] has risen to 35% (six-fold increase.)
All the same questions apply here... except it has narrowed further.
One fifth of undergrads say it's acceptable to use physical force to silence a speaker. [joke] specifically offensive and hurtful statements.
The poll doesn't specify context here?
As if there is no possible circumstance in reality to warrant physically assaulting a speaker? This question raises interesting but inconsequential segues.
Presuming we're talking about a specific speech here... offensive and hurtful... which translates to "it makes you feel something you don't like"
Could it be political, religious, or the new contenders "gender" speech or "Israel/Gaza - Ukraine?"
Yes... context matters, life is a spectrum, it always will.
62% of student Democrats think you should be able to 'shout down' speech you don't like.
"Student" is an important clue here... high school, university, both bastions of the art of debate, reason, and devotion to truth... oops, alternate reality.
Let me guess this poll was conducted at an Ivy-League institution.
My disappointment is about the presumption that a poll is a viable measure of people... my point would be that pollsters get away with too much... they can do real damage...
OK... that's out of my system...
Bill Maher reads statistics he finds troubling
RE: So very disappointed... - UltraBudgie - 11-06-2024
Well I think Mr Maher has had those statistics on a little notecard since 2017 or so, since that's when they're from. Here is some more info:
Are Millennials Giving Up On Democracy?
A chilling study shows how hostile college students are toward free speech
‘The People vs. Democracy’ and the Battle for Our Political Future
Only 30 Percent of Millennials Believe It's 'Essential' to Live in a Democracy
The Danger of Deconsolidation: The Democratic Disconnect
This chart, from here is interesting:
![[Image: Screenshot_2024-11-06_17-16-36.png]](https://denyignorance.com/uploader/images/Screenshot_2024-11-06_17-16-36.png)
Because I think it may say more about opinions on what "democracy" is, beyond Boomer knee-jerk anti-Communism, than any particular opinion on the value of popularly-representative government. I'm thinking of the little flashback I had while typing this of George Bush proclaiming "They hate us for our freedoms!", and exactly what "bringing Democracy" to the middle east entailed. Your generational trauma may vary.
Not saying Maher doesn't have a point. Please excuse me if I misjudge him. He's a smug obnoxious hate-director who's job is to have a point. It just may not be what his vitriol inspires you to think it is.
RE: So very disappointed... - Maxmars - 11-06-2024
(11-06-2024, 08:22 PM)UltraBudgie Wrote: Well I think Mr Maher has had those statistics on a little notecard since 2017 or so, since that's when they're from. Here is some more info:
Because I think it may say more about opinions on what "democracy" is, beyond Boomer knee-jerk anti-Communism, than any particular opinion on the value of popularly-representative government. I'm thinking of the little flashback I had while typing this of George Bush proclaiming "They hate us for our freedoms!", and exactly what "bringing Democracy" to the middle east entailed. Your generational trauma may vary.
Not saying Maher doesn't have a point. Please excuse me if I misjudge him. He's a smug obnoxious hate-director who's job is to have a point. It just may not be what his vitriol inspires you to think it is.
No fault at all, your point is well-made. Of course they all have a role to play... It just irked me somehow.
RE: So very disappointed... - BeTheGoddess - 11-06-2024
A few years back I joined a "Direct Democracy" group and the people running the group would shoot down any suggestion of implimenting elements of direct democracy into our current system; they just wanted to end the current system. The irony was not lost.
Just because the government is failing, we should fix it, not take it out back and...
RE: So very disappointed... - UltraBudgie - 11-06-2024
(11-06-2024, 10:56 PM)BeTheGoddess Wrote: Just because the government is failing, we should fix it, not take it out back and...
And make sweet, sweet love to it? Yeah.
I'm a few decades past the disillusionment now. And you know what? I'm not actually unhappy with the government any more. It all makes sense. I don't expect it to be different than it is, and in fact it being the way it is serves a purpose for me. I don't want to rule the world. I don't want to be a master of money. Let someone else do it, if that's their thing. I appreciate their service. What would we be without them?
I would like to see less bombs and dead kids and such, though. But I no longer believe there's some single evil puppet master making it all happen, without whom we'd all suddenly have peace, la la la. It's actually more difficult than that, but I'm willing to try, no matter how narrow the path. It may take a while.
RE: So very disappointed... - xpert11 - 11-07-2024
(11-06-2024, 10:56 PM)BeTheGoddess Wrote: A few years back I joined a "Direct Democracy" group and the people running the group would shoot down any suggestion of implimenting elements of direct democracy into our current system; they just wanted to end the current system. The irony was not lost.
I hope you got an expenses-free trip to Switzerland out of that ideal, for there is no better way to experience direct democracy. [Image: https://denyignorance.com/images/ogemojis2/ats2506_whisky.gif] [Image: https://denyignorance.com/images/ogemojis2/ats2488_breakdance.gif]
Just because the government is failing, we should fix it, not take it out back and...
That is happening with people's distrust of mainstream media outlets globally. The more those media sources spread propaganda, the greater the public dislikes and ignores them. Since propaganda outlets never change course, they are responsible for their downfall.
RE: So very disappointed... - Sirius - 11-07-2024
We went global to quickly, for most of our history we have been functioning in small communities. My current thinking is that we can't function in any other way.
RE: So very disappointed... - BeTheGoddess - 11-07-2024
(11-07-2024, 01:11 AM)xpert11 Wrote:
Propaganda goes back before Fox news
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontificio_Collegio_Urbano_de_Propaganda_Fide
