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+--- Thread: Just Following Orders (/Thread-Just-Following-Orders)
Just Following Orders - LightAngel - 09-29-2024
I am once again reading about the Milgram experiment - it reminds me about what happened during the corona madness.
Milgram wanted to understand how far people would go in obeying an instruction if it involved harming another person.
Many people are "just following orders" without questioning them at all. I think we should always resist harmful orders, and I also think we should always question everything!
This experiment was inspired by the atrocities committed during World War II, where many individuals also claimed they were "just following orders".
It is creepy to think about the fact that it is ingrained in some humans to murder another human if a person in a lab coat tells them to.
I found this video about the topic.
The Dark side of Science: The Milgram Experiment
RE: Just Following Orders - ArMaP - 09-29-2024
(09-29-2024, 09:05 AM)LightAngel Wrote: It is creepy to think about the fact that it is ingrained in some humans to murder another human if a person in a lab coat tells them to.
Not a person in a lab coat, a person that represents (or appears to represent) some kind of authority.
The variations of the experiment were also interesting, like when there were more than one person giving the "shocks" or when the scientist was not close to the person giving the "shocks".
In the first case the experiment subject would follow the other "shockers" opinions (either in favour or against) and in the second the subject was less likely to follow orders if the person giving the orders was not physically present.
RE: Just Following Orders - UltraBudgie - 09-29-2024
Also worth noting that the experiment was performed on Yale students.
Have you ever actually walked around New Haven? I have. It's one of the most depressing 'two-tiered' places I've ever seen. In the downtown, desperate drug-addled unwashed homeless mix with well-shod university boarding-school cutouts, in manner resembling oil and water. Each exist in their own bubble, and except for a smattering of mercantile class in shops and restaurants, there's virtually no middle ground. Everyone's place is immediately obvious. If you're an outsider, you'll be immediately accosted for money or aloofly ignored. It's quite a friendly place if you play the game, however.
I wondered why Yale and the city tolerate the poverty -- surely they could do something to improve it. New Haven is a nice city. Why does it have one of the worst homeless problems I've ever seen, within blocks of the campus?
I realized that in a way, it acts as part of the Ivy curriculum. Some of the first things you learn are how to know your status, recognize who is outside the club, flock with your own kind, and never never interact in a way that breaks the social barriers. A few years in, and you don't even see them anymore. They're just part of the background. Empathy exists only in the abstract, under full control of the will. It's an essential core learning of the upper political/managerial class in America. 'Privilege 101' is taught as an outdoor class, on the Green downtown.
If the poverty didn't exist, they'd have to import it. It's important, and absolutely necessary.
Now, I'm not saying this skewed Milgram's experiment, but perhaps it might give insight into exactly what his framing was and what he was looking for. Its worth noticing the criticism that the experiments have gotten in recent years, to the point where many consider them effectively debunked:
https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/why-almost-everything-you-know-about-milgram-wrong
RE: Just Following Orders - ArMaP - 09-29-2024
(09-29-2024, 11:50 AM)UltraBudgie Wrote: Also worth noting that the experiment was performed on Yale students.
That experiment was made with some changes in different places, even outside the US.
RE: Just Following Orders - LightAngel - 10-01-2024
(09-29-2024, 11:03 AM)ArMaP Wrote: Not a person in a lab coat, a person that represents (or appears to represent) some kind of authority.
Yes I know - I just mentioned a person in a lab coat (like a doctor) to give an example.
