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+--- Thread: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! (/Thread-GROUND-the-Boeing-737-MAX-Indefinitely)
GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - FlyingClayDisk - 09-28-2024
This is ENOUGH from Boeing! This airplane needs to be grounded...indefinitely! Like...forever!
NTSB issues 'urgent' safety alert on Boeing 737 rudder system
This aircraft is simply NOT safe, in my opinion!
I've flown on a MAX where the MCAS engaged over Denver in icing and turbulence. These where highly qualified pilots, and I was sitting next to a senior Pilot up in 1st. He was was riding dead head in uniform, but he was startled at what happened. We immediately started losing altitude, almost violently. DEN is at just below 5,500 ASL. We were cleared for FL90. All of a sudden the aircraft nosedived. PIC recovered and leveled off, only to nosedive again. At this point I'm sure the PIC and crew disabled the MCAS and climbed out. At one point we were 3,000 AGL. These airplanes are not safe, even with experienced PIC's. (Unless they've been through a true MAX simulator, then the old NG simulators with some iPad added instruction is not sufficient).
I'm sorry.
I was on the way to Lima, Peru on this flight. My stop was in Miami, because we were delayed on the ground, so I missed my connection in Houston. From there I had to take LATAM to Peru. I won't even go into SA airlines because it's a whole different world. I got there (thank Gawd), but it wasn't fun.
RE: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - Maxmars - 09-28-2024
I have to wonder about what has happened to Boeing. It seems that since the change of management (their sale?), the severity of problems just ballooned. Confidence in product quality seems to have plummeted simultaneously...
RE: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - 727Sky - 09-28-2024
I Originally posted this at ATS:
Quote:We had a different problem with the rudder of the 737 way back over 20 years ago. You would be flying and the rudder (by itself) would kick left or right for no reason. It was determined after several incidents that it was the yaw dampener causing the hard over. I think one aircraft crashed going into Colo. Springs and even though some said it was due to wind shear most figure it was due to a rudder hard over.
OK found it !
Quote:From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia United Airlines Flight 585 N999UA (left), the aircraft involved in the accident Accident Date March 3, 1991 Summary Loss of control due to rudder hardover[1] Site Widefield Park, near Colorado Springs Municipal Airport, United States 38°44′09.4″N 104°42′42.4″W Total fatalities 25 Total injuries 1 Aircraft Aircraft type Boeing 737-291 Operator United Airlines IATA flight No. UA585 ICAO flight No. UAL585 Call sign UNITED 585 Registration N999UA Flight origin Greater Peoria Regional Airport Stopover Quad City International Airport Last stopover Stapleton International Airport Destination Colorado Springs Municipal Airport Occupants 25 Passengers 20 Crew 5 Fatalities 25 Survivors 0 Ground casualties Ground injuries 1 United Airlines Flight 585 was a scheduled passenger flight on March 3, 1991, from Denver to Colorado Springs, Colorado, carrying 20 passengers and 5 crew members on board. The plane experienced a rudder hardover while on final approach to runway 35 at Colorado Springs Municipal Airport, causing the plane to roll over and enter an uncontrolled dive. All 25 people on board the Boeing 737 were killed on impact. The National Transportation Safety Board, (NTSB), was initially unable to resolve the cause of the crash, but after similar accidents and incidents involving Boeing 737 aircraft, the crash was determined to be caused by a defect in the design of the 737's rudder power control unit.[1]: ix
I was flying the 727 back then and thankful I was. Then they also went through a problem with the engines flaming out on approach and a rain shower.. The fix for that was to increase the idle speed of the engines.
Back in the 2000s I picked up a new Boeing 737-800 from California. I was at 35,000 over El Paso and every CRT went blank/black on the Captains and F.O.'s side. There was a switch you could transfer/bootstrap one side to the other but it did not work to transfer the first officers over to my side for his CRTs were non functional too.
It was a nice star lit night and I could see for hundreds of miles so I told ATC what the problem was as we had no navigation.. No emergency requested by me just don't violate us for getting off an airway. ATC never had to vector us back on course as I had flown that route hundreds of times.. I even shot the ILS 14L into Houston without an ILS !! hahaha
When parked at the gate maintenance and a supervisor came to the aircraft .. I told them what happened and they said that can not happen ! "That may be what Boeing says but here is proof they are wrong !"
They did the switch thingy and popped and checked circuit breakers and were still working on the bird to no avail...
Something I believe is we are test pilots when a new aircraft enters into service... Yes the big bugs are usually worked out but the little creepers can cause major problems as time passes... Just look at the DC-10 ! The two 737 Max that became lawn darts and killed everyone would not have happened IMO if the crew had not been trained to be push button pilots. I will go to my grave sincerely believing if I would have been flying either of those aircraft they would not have crashed because of a simple run-a-way trim problem.
I did fly the MD-80 for a few years but I always thought it was a Micky mouse aircraft compared to the 727.
RE: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - 727Sky - 10-14-2024
A list of Boeing incidents... I had no idea there were this many problems happening with Boeing aircraft.
RE: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - Maxmars - 10-14-2024
(10-14-2024, 05:23 AM)727Sky Wrote: A list of Boeing incidents... I had no idea there were this many problems happening with Boeing aircraft.
[Video: https://youtu.be/cT5_qxWsF88]
I know about 15 people to whom I must never show this video.
I have to wonder about fundamental changes that must have happened at Boeing. But was it since their sale?
That's a huge chunk of the total aircraft currently in use. I never heard of any of this kind of stuff back when 747's were the "big deal."
RE: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - FlyingClayDisk - 10-14-2024
(10-14-2024, 05:23 AM)727Sky Wrote: A list of Boeing incidents... I had no idea there were this many problems happening with Boeing aircraft.
[Video: https://youtu.be/cT5_qxWsF88]
AI generated videos irk me sometimes. The video says One Air (HC) 211 lost it's "Pilot heaters". I don't remember ever having a "pilot heater", but I sure remember having 'pitot heaters'. But going back to "pilot heaters" for a moment; not to sure how much I would have wanted one, but a "pilot air conditioner" would have been nice (especially while sitting on the ramp before the PCA units or APU's kicked in). But I digress.
"Pitot" heaters aside, there's a bigger issue here; one which doesn't jump out at most people right away. And, it speaks to a more fundamental problem which we'll being seeing more and more of in the future, at Boeing and many other industries even outside of aviation.
The video is one of these new AI generated videos. The narrator is not a real person, but rather an AI generated voice. Okay, so what's the big deal, right? Well, the AI voice is generated from a script, a text script. This text script is loaded into an AI process which generates the voice we hear on the video. But wait...it also does something else. It does something we see every day on the computer...it spell checks the script. But it doesn't just spell check; the AI algorithm also interprets the intent and lexicon. We're talking about airplanes (the algorithm reasons) so therefore a word like "pitot" must be an error because "pilots" fly airplanes, right? So, the algorithm changes "pitot" to "pilot". I think you can see where this is headed.
Oh sure, in this particular instance, the mistake is innocent enough, just an erroneous word in a youtube video, but...what if this was a training video, or in a section of FMS or EFIS code loaded into another computer? What if this was an assembly instruction, or an AD? Or, a simulator?
And it's not just limited to aviation either; it's happening everywhere, and more and more every day. Industries want to eliminate "bodies"; warm bodies are expensive. Automation is way cheaper, so let's go with automation. And what better automation is there than intelligent automation? Enter AI, artificial intelligence.
The Boeing 737-MAX needs to be grounded, and it needs to be grounded for a whole variety of reasons. Boeing, as a company, needs to go sit in the corner. The world's first big clue to Boeing's demise was their move of the corporate headquarters from Seattle to Chicago in 2001. Their aircraft were still being manufactured in Renton, but management is in Chicago, 1,500 miles away. And when Boeing got in trouble with the MAX, what did they do?? They moved their HQ from Chicago to Arlington, VA...just to get closer and comfier with their government consorts. So, it should be easy to understand why a company like Boeing could fall into the trap of A.I. cutting heads on the payroll, and the above is what we get as a result. No, Boeing didn't make the video, but this is the direction they're headed. And, how much you want to bet that Boeing has more than one training video with similar mistakes in it?
"Pilot heaters" anyone??
RE: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - 727Sky - 10-14-2024
What I am about to say may not be true but it is what I have heard, McDonald Douglas was a bean counter company that was highly motivated to produce a good bottom line for share holders and investors.
Boeing was an engineering company that wanted to make great safe aircraft. When Boeing and Douglas merged "the make a quick dollar crowd" from Douglas beat out the engineers, thus most of the work and parts are now Sub contracted out while the final assembly is done at Boeing with the subcontracted parts.
Not a good time for Boeing to become a F-up company as well as our military or open border government IMO!
RE: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - Quantum12 - 10-14-2024
[quote="FlyingClayDisk" pid='16045' dateline='1728910031']
I flew on an A-321 last week. I am tall and the headroom was amazing! I stay away from the 737 max! I always check to make sure it is not my aircraft!
RE: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - 727Sky - 10-24-2024
Full title of the article is : Boeing Suffers $6 Billion Loss in 3rd Quarter, CEO Calls for Fundamental Cultural Changes ..
Full title of the article is : Boeing Suffers $6 Billion Loss in 3rd Quarter, CEO Calls for Fundamental Cultural Changes
This quarter loss was $6.174 billion, compared with a $1.638 billion loss in the previous quarter. IMO it is better to hire by qualifications instead of quotas .
https://lists.theepochtimes.com/links/Go9OSnjQla/Jlid8tcrj/b3XK0cBSvO/A7819eSIa6
RE: GROUND the Boeing 737-MAX...Indefinitely!! - FlyingClayDisk - 10-24-2024
(10-24-2024, 04:06 PM)727Sky Wrote: Full title of the article is : Boeing Suffers $6 Billion Loss in 3rd Quarter, CEO Calls for Fundamental Cultural Changes ..
Full title of the article is : Boeing Suffers $6 Billion Loss in 3rd Quarter, CEO Calls for Fundamental Cultural Changes
This quarter loss was $6.174 billion, compared with a $1.638 billion loss in the previous quarter. IMO it is better to hire by qualifications instead of quotas .
https://lists.theepochtimes.com/links/Go9OSnjQla/Jlid8tcrj/b3XK0cBSvO/A7819eSIa6
DEI is a path to bankruptcy and the poor house, as it should be...through incompetence, and more lethal, negligence.
The NZ Navy might take note too!
