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There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - VulcanWerks - 06-09-2024
I suspect we have hit the limit as it pertains to the UFO/UAP subject.
I say this as nearly every show/documentary/article is either a rehash of an already analyzed case or is more of the same commentary and observation.
I have consumed more-less all documentaries on this subject available on Netflix or Amazon - and all of the network shows, too. I read and researched more-less the entirely of the UFO forum discussions on ATS (far better than documentaries). Consumed The Black Vault archives. I’ve reviewed thousands upon thousands of NASA images. I’ve heard Lazar lecture in person. I’ve researched many adjacent topics. I have personally seen a craft with the naked eye and have identified countless more through my personally developed research methods. I’ve spent at least $10k USD on equipment, access and data. I’ve read the classics, watched the movies, considered the propaganda angles, understood/contextualized/dissected the narrative, etc.
I made it to the point that contact is basically the next logical step but that doesn’t appear to be tenable based on historical observations and my own research.
The net of that is… I can say “something” is here in terms of UFOs or UAPs existing. No doubt.
What or who they are I can’t say. What their purpose is I can’t say.
The person who has done zero research and says “UFOs are real look at the videos” has reached the exact same conclusion I have even though I made it to the far side of the trough on the Dunning Kruger chart.
Until we have new and compelling cases to research or a new angle to explore my stance is we’ve hit peak UFO.
This point sank in when I started compiling meteorological data, data on how earths gravity varies, the upper atmosphere and more. I realized I’m reaching to find out a way to “prove” they exist. I can prove with photographic evidence but that has already been done. My quest for corroborating evidence landed me back at square one - it’s just a validator of what is already known to be true.
So with that, I’m walking away from The Phenomenon for now. Aside from people monetizing it to entertain those who are less initiated, there just isn’t much to see here.
It bums me out. I’ve learned so much about so many subjects from aerospace to physics to atmospheric sciences to existentialism and recent/ancient history. Never mind the fascinating rabbit hole of global political history. It’s been a more enlightening subject than my formal education ever was - and I have a fair bit of formal education.
Folks can save themselves a whole bunch of time by simply buying Bigelow’s comment:
“They’re here, they have always been here, and they’re right under your nose”
He’s right. But unfortunately that’s all there is to on be said about it absent a new avenue of research or access to underground locations that are currently off limits (and I don’t mean DUMBs but that would be cool).
Maybe others have arrived here too. Maybe someone will post a comment that provides the needed spark.
I do hope that new path comes as the UFO phenomenon is the most fascinating mystery known to humanity and the learning you get along the way is notably eye opening.
Boldly going back to our bland human “reality”,
VW
RE: There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - Tecate - 06-09-2024
Unfortunately, I find that I have to agree with you.
It just seems like nothing really new has happened to change anyone’s opinion.
At least in my view, it seems that until a craft materializes and lands midfield during the Olympics for the world to see, nothing will ever change.
My two pesos.
Tecate
RE: There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - VulcanWerks - 06-09-2024
(06-09-2024, 02:00 PM)Tecate Wrote: Unfortunately, I find that I have to agree with you.
It just seems like nothing really new has happened to change anyone’s opinion.
At least in my view, it seems that until a craft materializes and lands midfield during the Olympics for the world to see, nothing will ever change.
My two pesos.
Tecate
That’s pretty much it IMO.
We need something big to happen or the right kibble of information dropped to set off a different course of imvestigation.
Otherwise, just wait for the next crappy sci-FI movie to drop and watch more officials show us the same videos and talk about more closed door meetings. :/
RE: There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - schuyler - 06-09-2024
Sitting here staring at 350 UFO books accumulated over the last 50 years I have some of the same thoughts, Most of them say the same sorts of things and, quite frankly, I'm tired of lights in the sky. Avi Loeb's initiative to track everything in the sky with a network of tracking devices, for example, seems to me to be an utter waste of time. The “ETH” seems antiquated to me, despite the modern versions. And the “IDH” suffers from our inability to even define what a dimension is, and, no, string theory doesn't cut it as an explanation. Explanations that suggest “they've always been here” fall flat on their face, IMO, and just lead us back to the beginning.
It appears that we have no real idea of what capital-R Reality is. The Scientific Method should help, but its glacial speed coupled with its religious adherence to questionable precepts (the Speed of Light being one glaring example) means no 'out of the box' thinking is tolerated. Couple this with the active opposition of governments and other organizations in keeping “secrets” from the populace and you have what appears to be an intolerable situation. It appears that this active opposition includes the elimination of people who stray too close to the truth; it's that bad.
There is a Reality to be had and understood, and there are a few people who really understand the issues. It's just that they are not talking. I simply do not believe the usual suspects of Capitalism and Big Oil and the military are intentionally suppressing the technologies that could bring us Heaven on Earth. That is so simplistic as to be laughable. And I don't mean to imply “Jesus drives a Flying Saucer.” There is no need to invoke such fairly tales.
Flying machines from outer space are a side issue. The answer involves understanding the relationship of our own consciousness to the phenomena. The answer is personal, and until we understand that and pursue it from that standpoint, we will simply continue to fly round in space no closer to answers than we ever have been.
RE: There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - Nerb - 06-09-2024
If what you peeps here are saying is true and we have reached a pinnacle of revelations, I'd say that IF "they" have ever visited and ANY of the UFO/UAP sightings are genuine....NOW is the time to be concerned.
"The Calm Before The Storm" comes to mind.
Deep State red flag incoming or full on Alien invasion afoot?
RE: There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - VulcanWerks - 06-09-2024
(06-09-2024, 03:54 PM)Nerb Wrote: If what you peeps here are saying is true and we have reached a pinnacle of revelations, I'd say that IF "they" have ever visited and ANY of the UFO/UAP sightings are genuine....NOW is the time to be concerned.
"The Calm Before The Storm" comes to mind.
Deep State red flag incoming or full on Alien invasion afoot?
I very much doubt the “alien invasion” scenario.
I very much buy the “alien false flag” scenario.
(06-09-2024, 03:15 PM)schuyler Wrote:
Flying machines from outer space are a side issue. The answer involves understanding the relationship of our own consciousness to the phenomena. The answer is personal, and until we understand that and pursue it from that standpoint, we will simply continue to fly round in space no closer to answers than we ever have been.
Sagan arrived at a similar conclusion.
I did, too - and red Sagan in arrears.
I tried to approach this with a “clean sheet” mindset. Meaning, I didn’t want to read about what the historically famous UFO thinkers said so as not to pollute my own journey. As an example, Documentaries have an entertainment component to them - which is fine - but for me served as fodder for things to review. I cared less about how they presented the information and more about the information.
This topic is very deeply connected to consciousness as that is the unbreakable thread that ties us together. Sadly, most people are very unaware from a conscious standpoint. I am working on my awareness but don’t view myself as fully “awake”.
Sagan got here, too. I had heard about it during my research but kind of dismissed it as a way for him to keep writing books.
In reality, he simply arrived at what I view as the ultimately “answer” - you’ve seen craft, people have been taken, we know they exist physically but how do we connect?
Consciousness.
I can say the day I saw a flying disk was the day I let go of so many things and realized our world is far different and bigger than more-less anyone can comprehend. I’m fortunate to have had that experience and still working on growing my spirituality (not religious adhesion) on that basis. I’m thankful for the perspective “they” gave me.
RE: There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - Maxmars - 06-09-2024
I will attempt to add a small point to this realization. Perhaps affirming the state of affairs, but ending on a less underwhelming tone.
I think between you, and and everyone here, we have amassed sufficient evidence and points of discussion to say that there is no more to find... or perhaps better considered, what remain and is being added is mostly "more of the same" and nothing relatively noteworthy taken against everything we have studied.
But I remind us all of what is probably becoming tiresome to hear. "We don't know everything."
There are undeniably gatekeepers of further data... but you know what? They don't know everything either.
If we are to presume they are hiding what they "know," we have to remember they don't necessarily have anything more meaningful than what has already been accumulated in the topic. I don't know if whatever is being concealed behind the effort to shroud the discussion can be called "a game changer." There's infinite room for "what if" discussions, but the task of accumulating new information seems to be sufficient to say, "Yes... it is not a 'fantasy' or a 'fabrication,' there is something more than ourselves here."
But soon, I believe, new technologies and and approaches to sensing equipment may yet provide data which at the very least can separate the wheat from the chaff. New approaches don't have to be limited to the gimmickry of tech though. There have been movements towards a less materialistic approach to communication, and while it's not scientifically concrete, it is interesting.
There is also the missing debate from the topic... namely that IF we understand things correctly, someone has to answer for the gatekeepers in the first place. The unformed image must be resolved. What "commercial enterprise" was actually a cabal of government whose purpose was to hold and control this aspect of reality? How much of the topic has been deliberately kept from the rest of the world. They must explain "why" beyond the base platitudes...
There are still elements of this "UFO conspiracy theory" that merit explanation. We've spent half a century, in our modern world, simply justifying the belief. That is not the "end" of the story in any way.
Having gathered all the data we can use doesn't mean the effort is 'over.'
Now comes the meta analysis... crafting a larger image out of the puzzle pieces. There had been such an effort to refute the pieces, that many overlooked the actual image it produces. I suggest we can't let ourselves be distracted from that... which if anything, is at least closer to an actual "end-point" than where we are now.
((But in all things there must be balance... and taking a break can often be more "productive" than doggedly plodding through while fatigued.))
RE: There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - VulcanWerks - 06-09-2024
(06-09-2024, 04:28 PM)Maxmars Wrote: I will attempt to add a small point to this realization. Perhaps affirming the state of affairs, but ending on a less underwhelming tone.
I think between you, and and everyone here, we have amassed sufficient evidence and points of discussion to say that there is no more to find... or perhaps better considered, what remain and is being added is mostly "more of the same" and nothing relatively noteworthy taken against everything we have studied.
But I remind us all of what is probably becoming tiresome to hear. "We don't know everything."
There are undeniably gatekeepers of further data... but you know what? They don't know everything either.
If we are to presume they are hiding what they "know," we have to remember they don't necessarily have anything more meaningful than what has already been accumulated in the topic. I don't know if whatever is being concealed behind the effort to shroud the discussion can be called "a game changer." There's infinite room for "what if" discussions, but the task of accumulating new information seems to be sufficient to say, "Yes... it is not a 'fantasy' or a 'fabrication,' there is something more than ourselves here."
But soon, I believe, new technologies and and approaches to sensing equipment may yet provide data which at the very least can separate the wheat from the chaff. New approaches don't have to be limited to the gimmickry of tech though. There have been movements towards a less materialistic approach to communication, and while it's not scientifically concrete, it is interesting.
There is also the missing debate from the topic... namely that IF we understand things correctly, someone has to answer for the gatekeepers in the first place. The unformed image must be resolved. What "commercial enterprise" was actually a cabal of government whose purpose was to hold and control this aspect of reality? How much of the topic has been deliberately kept from the rest of the world. They must explain "why" beyond the base platitudes...
There are still elements of this "UFO conspiracy theory" that merit explanation. We've spent half a century, in our modern world, simply justifying the belief. That is not the "end" of the story in any way.
Having gathered all the data we can use doesn't mean the effort is 'over.'
Now comes the meta analysis... crafting a larger image out of the puzzle pieces. There had been such an effort to refute the pieces, that many overlooked the actual image it produces. I suggest we can't let ourselves be distracted from that... which if anything, is at least closer to an actual "end-point" than where we are now.
((But in all things there must be balance... and taking a break can often be more "productive" than doggedly plodding through while fatigued.))
All fair points, Max.
I suspect that some humans, who I can’t say, know a lot more than most of us. That doesn’t mean everyone in government or military knows those things. From my research, whoever knows anything about this must be very behind the scenes and are part of a very small bunch.
Personally, I think that some people know a huge amount of the story. Maybe not all but nearly all of it. That’s a small number of people but is still known.
I look at it like this. I’m a dude who has been trained in problem/opportunity analysis, resolution and implementation of solutions at scale. Think McKinsey. I was born to very intelligent people as my father is almost certainly a genius (though he would never take a test I’m sure). I used the tools I have to study this subject and not simply take “someone’s word for it”. DIY. I thought different and got confirmed better results than most. I can identify when you’ll see them, a sense of what craft will be present, established them nearly being omnipresent and independently validated for myself much of what we have otherwise been told.
So I’m just a dude on the internet who did that. .mil and others have undoubtedly deployed resources wildly (understatement) beyond what I have the ability to deploy. At bear minimum I suspect they can identify behavior patterns, location preferences, conditions of sightings… across the mediums of oceans, air and space. I can only do air. They might not know who these folks are but they have a hugely better grasp on what’s happening - or at least I’d be shocked if they didn’t.
My Astr0 thread didn’t get any traction but I as I pecked that out on my phone it dawned on me that, Astr0 aside, many answers we seek could be intertwined with “taboo” subjects - specifically Nazi Germany, German archeological history, Antarctica, Von Braun, etc. Things that are painted in distinct lights that make seeking deeper information on this topics challenging - particularly objective reasoning.
This is a lot of words to say my observations say you’re likely over target but I do think there is materially more knowledge on this subject than acknowledged and I don’t think it’s off the table that some humans - who is TBD - are fully engaged with “them”.
Like someone said once… you don’t get in trouble with this subject for what you say or claim to know, you get in trouble for what you can prove. :)
RE: There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - schuyler - 06-09-2024
I think that we are not sufficiently acknowledging what we already do know, and we do already know a lot. It doesn't really matter that many people don't know. Many of them don't really care one way or another. And it doesn't matter that some people, like Mick West, are taking an advocacy position. He doesn't know anything anyway. He's a newbie with an attitude. It's not like he has spent any quality time analyzing the issues. He brings no expertise to the debate. I dismiss him as irrelevant. We also have no need to convince people who don't know, even if they are actively resisting.
What we do know comes from many different people, both inside and outside of government, the military, contractors, and corporations. They have stood up and told us. They saw something They touched something, They tracked it, followed it, analyzed it, measured it, and in some cases, if they are to be believed, even rode on it. These are people from all walks of life, including children, pilots both military and otherwise, old ladies, and even some crazy people.
Because I don't believe everyone. Truman Bethurum's fanciful affair with Aura Rhanes from Clarion is a great fantasy. She was even named as a co-respondent in his divorce. And Serpo isn't even a very good story. A step up from them we have people like Billy Meier and Steven Greer. They may have seen something, but surely they have exaggerated a great deal. If you don't think so, then actually read their books, then come back here and profess how true they are.
They don't matter either. They can also be dismissed. But you can't dismiss the vast majority of ordinary people who have disclosed what they saw. That the government itself has not sufficiently disclosed all “it” knows is another issue entirely. It begs the question. Why do you need the government to disclose to you what your fellow citizens have already told you, including dozens of people from within the government itself? Do you really need the government to confirm reality for you? Will you still continue to believe in Santa until your parents tell you otherwise? Is that the only thing that will convince you Santa isn't real?
At this point the debate shifts from the reality of UFOs to the “people's right to know.” But what is this right based upon? It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It's not in the Constitution. It's not in the Bill of Rights. And these are just American documents anyway, though the ideas have been copied globally. They still don't count for Russia, China, and the majority of people in the world. About the closest you can come to a “right to know” is the FOIA: The Freedom of Information Act, which is trying to get to the concept of government transparency. But as you know, is full of exemptions for such things as national security.
Given that last issue, you will be hard-pressed to “demand” government disclose anything at all. And for the many among us who would suggest people need to be tried and sent to jail for not telling is everything, nonsense. We have several generations now of people who have refused to disclose, and to them, they have been doing their job of protecting the republic as they see it. If you keep trotting out this “We're gonna get you!” motif, you can't expect any sort of cooperation.
I want Disclosure as much as anyone, but I don't “demand” it because that is counterproductive. We don't need more enemies. We simply need to encourage cooperation.
RE: There is No More to the UFO/UAP Subject - For Now - VulcanWerks - 06-09-2024
I guess I’ve never felt like I was “owed” an explanation or disclosure. Heck, maybe “they” have forced the truth embargo.
I’m just curious. I believe firmly that engaging with another intelligent species - particularly one that is more intelligent than we are - would be the most evolutionary important moment our species has ever encountered. Regardless of the engagement it would be game changing.
Given my previous statement, it makes sense .gov would “own” this. Fine here. I’m just interested in the learning and understanding what actually underlies my reality.
