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+--- Thread: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns (/Thread-Teacher-was-fired-for-refusing-to-call-children-by-their-preferred-pronouns)
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - l0st - 06-10-2024
(06-10-2024, 01:57 AM)ANNEE Wrote: So, what is your personal involvement?
Who have you gone to counseling with?
I'm not sure I follow your line of questioning? Why would I be personally involved with the trans movement and why would I go to counseling about it? Am I missing something?
The opinions I have stated are really nothing more than a collection of observations and what my thoughts are on those in the culmination of the last 14 years of experience with this movement on the CT forums.
I have personally known 2 trans people in my life. Both of them had personal issues that went far beyond their gender dysphoria. One did move forward with meds and surgeries and then later cut off everyone they previously knew. The other one never really did anything but continue complaining about it. From my conversations with them over time I gathered that both were rather severely abused by a potentially narcissistic, sociopathic mother. Both of them would be FTM.
I also knew of an MTF that was kinda vaguely in one of my social circles. This person fully transitioned to a female, then decided they were a lesbian and would only date women. Based on the conversations I had with this person and also what I heard from others in the group this person certainly seemed to fit the description of "autogynephile". I mean really had a weird obsession with the genitalia.
(06-10-2024, 12:03 PM)pianopraze Wrote: You’re confused why government sponsored indoctrination centers indoctrinate children?
There is a reason homeschool students numbers have exploded.
No, I'm confused why siciology, a theoretical soft science, is being placed at the forefront of curriculum in schools that ostensibly exist to teach hard skills, and why every other teachable subject matter is being prefaced with it.
(06-10-2024, 12:39 PM)ANNEE Wrote: Majority (not all) homeschooling is for religious reasons.
We've all heard the glowing accolades of homeschooling.
Have you ever researched the other side?
I think historically, you are correct. Nowadays though? TBH, if I had young children today, I absolutely would NOT send them to public schools, but not really because of the Trans agenda per se, but the totality of the obvious Marxist brainwashing being pushed, the politicization by teachers, and the lack of proper educational standards and discipline.
Just as teachers have no business proselytizing their religious beliefs to their students it is also entirely inappropriate to push their political beliefs on their students as well, and TBH that's exactly what this comes down to.
The belief that a government employee needs to do anything but follow the law is preposterous. In fact, one might even argue that failure to flatly follow the law as written might open themselves to liability. This district will get sued, and the teacher will win. It seems to me that calling all of the students in the class by their real, legal names is completely equitable treatment, is it not? The US and state Constitutions all require "equal protection under law." If she complies with the request then she is now giving this student preferential treatment over others.
As has been pointed out, there is a legal process for changing one's name. People do it all the time (hello, marriage and divorce). Costs about $50 down at City Hall.
But really, all this student had to do was raise their hand and say "here" and they would have moved right on with the lesson with no fuss.
I have a name that people screw up constantly. Doesn't bother me a bit. In fact, people call me by the wrong name all the time and I just ignore it because it's not worth my time to correct every person with a hearing or speech impediment. If they really need to write it down or something I just spell it for them.
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - pianopraze - 06-13-2024
(06-10-2024, 12:39 PM)ANNEE Wrote: Majority (not all) homeschooling is for religious reasons.
We've all heard the glowing accolades of homeschooling.
Have you ever researched the other side?
You say that like it’s a bad thing. It is not.
Many reasons to homeschool or Private school - academics being the greatest.
Seems like more reasons every day as one side seems to be taking over the schools and universities and imposing their ideology while becoming more authoritarian every day. Dare to have a different opinion and they are coming up with increasingly powerful means of punishment and harassment.
What do you call an authoritarian ideology that controls corporations, government, schools, and media?
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - ANNEE - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 10:27 AM)pianopraze Wrote: You say that like it’s a bad thing. It is not.
Many reasons to homeschool or Private school - academics being the greatest.
Seems like more reasons every day as one side seems to be taking over the schools and universities and imposing their ideology while becoming more authoritarian every day. Dare to have a different opinion and they are coming up with increasingly powerful means of punishment and harassment.
What do you call an authoritarian ideology that controls corporations, government, schools, and media?
Thank you for your opinion.
I personally do not support home schooling -- unless there is a really good reason that is best for the child.
"Imposing their ideology" -- meaning people who have always been -- but were not allowed by law to be -- now openly expressing themselves.
I'm 77 -- when I was a kid the law prevented you from seeing your own school records and medical records. They were considered government records.
Free to be -- or STUCK in a previously "acceptable" formatted social structure that's losing its relevance.
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - l0st - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 08:19 PM)ANNEE Wrote: Thank you for your opinion.
I personally do not support home schooling -- unless there is a really good reason that is best for the child.
"Imposing their ideology" -- meaning people who have always been -- but were not allowed by law to be -- now openly expressing themselves.
I'm 77 -- when I was a kid the law prevented you from seeing your own school records and medical records. They were considered government records.
Free to be -- or STUCK in a previously "acceptable" formatted social structure that's losing its relevance.
I'm not sure where you are, but I'm fairly certain that in the US, where the incident took place, had never restricted access to a person's own school and medical records - at least, not within my lifetime... And I've been around for a WHILE now.
"Open expression" of political and religious views has never been allowed in the United States within public schools. Private schools are a different story. It is completely unacceptable and also illegal to teach your own personal political and religious beliefs to a student in a public school in the US and it's also 100% ethically and morally wrong.
No schoolteacher has the right to push their religion or political beliefs on a child that is not their own. It's WAY outside the scope of responsibility for a public school teacher.
Public schools are not and never have been free speech zones. The laws that protect adults don't apply to children. Additionally, the school is recognized to work as a foster parent in the absence of the legal guardian - the legal concept is "in loco parentis." It has always excluded political and religious dogma and this has been backed repeatedly by the courts.
The Trans group may have legitimate gripes and political issues to surmount, but public schools are not the appropriate venue to fight this battle.
Parents who don't feel that public schools address the needs of their children are free to remove their children from school and homeschool or seek private schooling on their own dime, who can legally teach your kids anything they like that you've authorized.
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - ANNEE - 06-13-2024
(06-13-2024, 09:27 PM)l0st Wrote: The Trans group may have legitimate gripes and political issues to surmount, but public schools are not the appropriate venue to fight this battle.
We've heard from a poster who works with trans kids.
I am personally, hands on, going through this right now with my 16-year-old.
YOU'VE read things. And have no personal experience.
"Trans Kids" -- means school. That is where most kids learn to socialize and find out who they are.
School is absolutely where this fight belongs.
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - ANNEE - 06-14-2024
(06-13-2024, 09:27 PM)l0st Wrote: I'm not sure where you are, but I'm fairly certain that in the US, where the incident took place, had never restricted access to a person's own school and medical records - at least, not within my lifetime... And I've been around for a WHILE now.In the past, school records were considered government documents, and parents typically did not have direct access to them. However, this changed with the implementation of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) in 1974. FERPA ensures the privacy of student education records and grants certain rights to parents and eligible students. Here are some key points about FERPA:
- Privacy Protection: FERPA applies to all schools that receive federal funds. It defines “education records” as files, documents, and materials directly related to a student and maintained by an educational agency or institution[sup]1[/sup]. Schools must protect these records from unauthorized disclosure.
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - l0st - 06-14-2024
(06-13-2024, 11:13 PM)ANNEE Wrote: We've heard from a poster who works with trans kids.
I am personally, hands on, going through this right now with my 16-year-old.
YOU'VE read things. And have no personal experience.
"Trans Kids" -- means school. That is where most kids learn to socialize and find out who they are.
School is absolutely where this fight belongs.
Students don't go to public school to explore their sexuality. That is a process solely reserved for their own personal time and has no place in a classroom. Students go to public schools to learn life skills and that is the ONLY commission of said institutions.
Most kids don't start having sex until college. They've run studies here and something like 17% of students lose their virginity while still attending high school, and they almost certainly did NOT lose their actual virginity inside the school.
I fail to see how the student's sexuality has any relevance to the classroom experience. The student does not attend classes for the purpose of discussion about their sexuality.
Like I said before, maybe a topic for discussion in health and biology. Outside of that I fail to see how the students sexuality is at all relevant for math class. Care to explain the relationship between human sexuality and algebra?
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - ANNEE - 06-14-2024
(06-14-2024, 04:11 PM)l0st Wrote: Students don't go to public school to explore their sexuality. That is a process solely reserved for their own personal time and has no place in a classroom. Students go to public schools to learn life skills and that is the ONLY commission of said institutions.Where did I mention having sex or sexuality?
Most kids don't start having sex until college. They've run studies here and something like 17% of students lose their virginity while still attending high school, and they almost certainly did NOT lose their actual virginity inside the school.
I fail to see how the student's sexuality has any relevance to the classroom experience. The student does not attend classes for the purpose of discussion about their sexuality.
Like I said before, maybe a topic for discussion in health and biology. Outside of that I fail to see how the students sexuality is at all relevant for math class. Care to explain the relationship between human sexuality and algebra?
Seems to me it's been a while since you've been personally involved with public schools.
BTW - to get back to topic -- trans kids at my kids' school are respected by the teachers/staff and addressed as they wish to be addressed. They also have "open door" counseling if a kid needs to talk to someone.
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - putnam6 - 06-14-2024
Im of the opinion the schools ought to assign students an ID number and thats all they go by.
Bogging down the rest of the student's day because a substitute doesn't know an individual's proper pronouns is BS.
A number means they are all equal as they should be.
There are many reasons behind homeschooling, we have public school teachers in our family as well as some homeschoolers. Religion was a minor factor in thier decision to home-school. For the record Im generally against homeschooling, but fully support a parent's right to do so.
Bullying and teenage suicides because of bullying are off the charts...these days if my child were to be seriously affected by this alone I'd probably pull them out of school.
Claude AI on why parents choose homeschooling
Quote:Here are some of the main reasons why parents choose to homeschool their children:
These reasons can vary among families, and many parents cite a combination of factors for choosing to homeschool their children.
- Customize education: Homeschooling allows parents to tailor the curriculum, teaching methods, and pace of learning to their child's individual needs, interests, and learning style.
- Academic reasons: Some parents believe they can provide a better education at home, particularly if they are dissatisfied with the quality of the local public or private schools.
- Religious or moral reasons: Many parents choose to homeschool for religious or moral reasons, allowing them to incorporate their beliefs and values into their children's education.
- Special needs: Homeschooling can provide a more suitable learning environment for children with special educational needs, disabilities, or behavioral challenges.
- Family lifestyle: Homeschooling can better accommodate families who travel frequently, have unique schedules, or want to spend more time together.
- Bullying or safety concerns: Some parents opt for homeschooling to remove their children from negative social environments or perceived safety issues in traditional schools.
- Flexibility: Homeschooling allows for more flexibility in scheduling, taking breaks, and adjusting the pace of learning based on the child's needs.
- Socialization concerns: While often a point of criticism, some parents believe they can provide better socialization opportunities through homeschooling activities and interactions.
RE: Teacher was fired for refusing to call children by their preferred pronouns - l0st - 06-14-2024
(06-14-2024, 11:20 AM)ANNEE Wrote: In the past, school records were considered government documents, and parents typically did not have direct access to them. However, this changed with the implementation of the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) in 1974. FERPA ensures the privacy of student education records and grants certain rights to parents and eligible students. Here are some key points about FERPA:
Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA)
- Privacy Protection: FERPA applies to all schools that receive federal funds. It defines “education records” as files, documents, and materials directly related to a student and maintained by an educational agency or institution[sup]1[/sup]. Schools must protect these records from unauthorized disclosure.
1974.
Right.
50 years ago.
Since people take roughly 18 to complete a public school education then the youngest person alive to have experienced this is now 68 years old. I don't mean to be offensive but are you really hanging your hat on a 70 year old argument?
(06-14-2024, 04:37 PM)ANNEE Wrote: Where did I mention having sex or sexuality?
Seems to me it's been a while since you've been personally involved with public schools.
BTW - to get back to topic -- trans kids at my kids' school are respected by the teachers/staff and addressed as they wish to be addressed. They also have "open door" counseling if a kid needs to talk to someone.
Really?
Transgenderism is a sexual orientation. If you're saying it's not, where are all the kindergarteners demanding to be called different names and pronouns?
Why has the trans community hijacked gay rights organizations like HRC that were specifically created for issues surrounding sexual orientation?
Calling someone by their real name is not disrespectful.
So, if the student wants to be called a different name every day of the week, because they are "gender fluid" and feel 5 different pronouns that week is the teacher supposed to accommodate that as well?
There is a strong link between transgender youth and abuse at home by s narcissistic sociopath/borderline personality disorder - typically the mother.
