(06-08-2024, 06:55 PM)Maxmars Wrote: But I think there is a mischaracterization in play in your last paragraph. The care which we should be discussing is medically necessary gender remediation... what's illegal in those states is performing it without the recommendation of a doctor. It seemed prudent to me since surgical gender-reassignment is a one way street, and is a sterilization process... not something a minor should be undergoing because "they just feel like it," (and they have thousands of dollars to burn.)

Quote: Research has shown that those who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or questioning (LGBTQ+) have a 120% higher risk of experiencing some form of homelessness.[1] With up to 40% of the 4.2 million youth experiencing homelessness identifying as LGBTQ+[2] while only 9.5% of the U.S. population[3], LGBTQ+ youth disproportionately experience homelessness compared to their straight and cisgender peers. They are also more likely to experience assault, trauma, depression, and suicide when compared to non-LGBTQ+ populations while also being homeless. These statistics are even worse for Black and Indigenous People of Color (BIPOC) LGBTQ+ populations who suffer from racial inequities and discrimination.

(06-07-2024, 06:18 AM)K218b Wrote: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13497389/wyoming-teacher-fired-trans-students-preferred-pronouns.html



The student called another teacher who tried to argue the parents of the students gave their permission to be called by another name. The student is a boy identifying as a girl.

Then as the teacher wasn't going to change his mind the Principal stepped in and said the teacher is not welcome back to the school after all he did. Then he was escorted out of the school by the Vice-Principal.

And that's the second time the teacher was fired for the same reason! A similar incident occurred during the spring semester at another school in the same district, Triumph High School. The Principal asked him to leave the premises because he wasn't obviously fit to teach.

I wonder if the education authorities should take the matter further. The teacher refused to call a boy who identified as a girl with another name and a girl who identified as a boy with another name. These teachers deserve not only to be fired but they shouldn't be anywhere near children, let alone be their teachers and mentors. Shame of him! He should be banned from the profession.

(06-08-2024, 05:56 PM)Karl12 Wrote: I always thought you were a man Byrd - not that it matters.

Can you not grasp what Jordan is saying here about the inherent dangers of state sponsored absurdity?

Let people believe whatever they want - I think everyone agrees with that one (unless it physically harms children like MAPs).

The government has absolutely no business getting involved - and I've seen what happens when it does.

(06-08-2024, 01:19 AM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: As much as some would like teachers to teach the curriculum and stick to the three “Rs” as it were, there is a lot more going on in K-12 schools than just the lessons and only someone with a limited black and white understanding of the world would fail to see that.

There is no more crucial time in our lives learning about socialization, the development of our personalities and for gaining our own sense of agency and identity to carry us into our adult lives. How we learn to interact with others and the world and establish our place within it is an inherent part of our school years so to discount these factors as being irrelevant as a part of the educational process would be shortsighted if not foolhardy.

In my opinion if the kids are gender variant or transgender and are known by others and their family a certain way, that this should be respected when politely asked without being a dick about it or trying to make a point. I know from my dealings with trans youth, decades of researching into the subject and from personal experiences that when a teacher acknowledges a student’s identity without trying to make it a political or ideological battleground, it can go a long way toward facilitating the actual learning process and curriculum.

PS
I like the little rainbow reputation thing in the profile of mods and admins. Is this for pride month? LOL

(06-08-2024, 04:05 AM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: I didn’t find your comments particularly or overly abrasive but I appreciate your willingness to try to improve. Along those lines I might suggest using phrases like “a student's whining about their sexualized identity-fantasy” and “wallow in their sexuality obsessed perceptions” falls somewhat short of the mark of being less abrasive and demonstrates a general but common misunderstanding of gender atypical and transgender youth due to lack of actual or practical experience in dealing with these scenarios or individuals beyond what is presented in the media.


Having reviewed the linked article in the OP, this is indeed a case with this teacher. Would it really have been so hard or earth shattering to simply respect these student’s request and get on with the lessons without turning the whole thing into a political battleground?

To address the suggestion that if a student wants to be called a different name, it should be changed legally and reregistered as such with the school I would like to offer the following:

As today’s youth are more flexible and less rigid in matters of gender and sexuality, the possibility exists a young person might just be experimenting or trying on different identities to figure out what fits them and the timing for a legal name change might not be appropriate or even desired as they might not be ready for a full social transition. There are also costs involved that some families simply can’t afford as the rules and procedures for changing names (and gender) vary from state-to-state.

Even in cases where a child has gone through legal recognition of a gender change there are still those who refuse to use proper names and pronouns which can be pretty emotionally and psychologically devastating to the person involved but who cares about the kid when (conservative) ideology and the right to be an ass (free speech) matters more. To me that’s pretty heartless and certainly not conducive to a student excelling in their studies.

From the outside I’m sure these matters seem pretty cut and dried and black or white but these attitudes lack nuance and ignore the differences between individuals within a widely diverse group.


Championing what social behavior? Refusing to use a trans kid’s name and pronouns? That’s just asshattery and if your point was the inverse – that some teachers are promoting this “nonsense”, I would like to point out that they have every major medical association in the country backing their position.

(06-08-2024, 03:22 PM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: Trans youth is a subject I am passionate and very well informed about and I apologize if I become offensive but my previous online experiences in trying to bring some information and a different perspective to the discourse as well as the spate of ignorant politicized anti-trans legislation sweeping the country pushed by theocratic fascists wannabes (whew! LOL) has me mostly on the defensive. It shouldn’t have to be this way and I understand what a hot button topic trans youth has become and how contentions these discussions can be so I do make an effort to not be an ass but I am not always as successful in that as I would like to be.

...

I think you’re overcomplicating the situation and attributing “purpose and decorum” as being part of normal teenage behaviors and skill sets. In a 20 second exchange – teacher calls a kid Paul whose friends and family know them as Paula and a simple common request for decency and respect is met with obstinate politically motivated denial and refusal to accommodate the student’s appeal. The question becomes who is doing the platforming here, the student or the teacher? If someone insists on calling you Matilda or Maxine instead of Max wouldn’t you be inclined to correct them and when that fails to garner the proper response, to appeal to a higher authority? I don’t blame this kid at all and as this substitute teacher has a history of treating kids in ways they might find rude and offensive, repercussions seem appropriate.


With the fear of presenting a partisan response, my gut reaction is to call out that this is happening as you describe as a right-wing wet dream of misinformation but that wouldn’t be very nice of me. This notion that kids are being pushed into transition or a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is not borne out by the facts. Sure, conservative media capitalizes on this in the rare cases this does happen because it fans the flames of controversy and clicks but by far, this is the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of kids seeking gender affirming care, which may be little more than a place to explore their thoughts and feelings, are unable to obtain it and in 25 U.S. states, such care has now been criminalized which should be a private matter between families and medical professionals.

(06-08-2024, 08:24 PM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: Curiously if a flat-chested teenage natal female has breast augmentation or rhinoplasty to affirm her gender or enhance her sexual attractiveness, that’s okay which seems like a double standard to me.

...

In spite of best practice medical guidelines supported by every major medical organization in the U.S., many states prohibit the use of puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones for minors with some states even pondering banning all trans medical care for those under 26. (note: puberty blockers can’t inhibit puberty if it has already passed)

...

There has roughly been 1000 anti-LGBTx pieces of legislation proposed in the last two years with many of them passing into law and most of them focusing on transgender kids but what you might find interesting is who is behind all this as practically none has come from grassroots constituents clamoring for laws but rather in almost all instances motivation to propose and pass these laws comes from a handful of powerful anti-everything that isn’t straight and cisgender extremist fundamentalist religions political organizations. To name drop a few on some sort of a Christo jihad, how about the Alliance Defending Freedom, the the Family Research Council, the Heritage Foundation and the Liberty Counsel. As a firm believer of separation of church and state, the influence of these organizations on policy and legislation is absolutely abhorrent that scares me to the bone.

(06-09-2024, 05:38 PM)Byrd Wrote: When someone's intentionally rude to another person over a fairly trivial matter (a name), then the odds are pretty decent that they're doing it to be mean and to force a confrontation.  That's not an appropriate way to treat a child.

The child didn't ask to be bullied by an adult.  The child only asked for a preferred method of address.

Teachers are supposed to be empathic towards students -- a teacher who understands where the student is coming from can be a better manager of classroom problems.  Our modern school system approach (as flawed as it is) is a HUGE step up from the old system, where education was NOT a right and if you wanted an education, you danced to the demands of whoever the teacher was.  If the teacher wanted to beat you with a bookstrap, that was just fine.

(06-09-2024, 07:22 PM)ANNEE Wrote: I do not do long posts.  But school today is way different.  If you're an outsider making judgment -- you have no clue.

Socializing and all aspects of who a person is including gender variants takes priority over everything else.

I know because I am personally going through this experience right now.

Of course, there is still academics -- but it's pretty much automatic.  Assignments are online.

(06-09-2024, 08:00 PM)ANNEE Wrote: "Why is transgenderism supplanting all other forms of education in our school systems?" 

I did not say that.

I said this:  "Socializing and ALL ASPECTS OF WHO A PERSON IS -- including gender variants takes priority over everything else.

Kids today are overloaded with information.  They need help in sorting it out.  They definitely don't need judgment from a self-righteous authoritarian.

For strictly academics there really is no reason not to do it at home.  It's all automated.  If you need to talk to an instructor there are many ways to do that, text, zoom, etc.