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+--- Thread: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial (/Thread-Donald-Trump-found-guilty-on-all-counts-in-%E2%80%98hush-money%E2%80%99-trial)
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - Byrd - 05-31-2024
The next phase will be interesting.
There will be appeals, of course, but Merchan has done a lot to forestall some of the obvious ones -- including asking the New York supreme court if he should recuse himself (unanimous decision was "no".)
I think the appeals will fail because he was so well prepared. They certainly won't do well if the lawyers let Trump direct the process -- that was part of the reason that the defense failed to prove that the accusation was hollow. I don't think he'll see jail time; I'm expecting sanctions and fines.
BUT (here's the interesting thing) -- how do we prevent this situation in the future? What steps need to be taken to assure the public that the person they elect for president is not involved in criminal acts?
(if you hate Hillary/Obama/Bush/Biden/Carter/etc, what should be done to make certain that the person who becomes president has a clean record?)
Should the parties have some sort of vetting system?
On the national level, should there be a security clearance pass first before they can run for president?
What say you?
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - Maxmars - 05-31-2024
(05-31-2024, 09:48 PM)Byrd Wrote: ....
BUT (here's the interesting thing) -- how do we prevent this situation in the future? What steps need to be taken to assure the public that the person they elect for president is not involved in criminal acts?
(if you hate Hillary/Obama/Bush/Biden/Carter/etc, what should be done to make certain that the person who becomes president has a clean record?)
Should the parties have some sort of vetting system?
On the national level, should there be a security clearance pass first before they can run for president?
What say you?
But, but... There is no way we can ever be certain that any politician isn't engaging in criminal acivity. You can't prove a negative. They may have done so, are doing so, or will do so... And obfuscating, hiding, or redefining, "crime" is a specialty of the political class. (Doubly dangerous when some citizens vote by the "flavor" of the politican.)
At this point, I would wager that ANY person targeted by a biased system will be found guilty of whatever offense they can conjure for the ritual of public court. Having some experiences in the justice system showed me just how brazenly the power can become skewed towards a single persons' bias. Guilt of anything is no longer a personal matter... it is now subject to the prevailing will of those in positions of authority which are cloistered or insular. (shades of Dostoyevsky)
I thought all along that the "whichever" party would be responsible for selecting 'worthy' individuals for candidacies... but recent history has proven that to be unrealistic.
I agree that a different approach appears to be necessary. But the wailing of the partisan (and professional victim activists) will make that difficult to achieve as long as the media is allowed to tell us "what we all think" without the checks and balances of fact and truth.
Whew! I need to think about this further.
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - VulcanWerks - 05-31-2024
(05-31-2024, 01:58 PM)K218b Wrote: It shouldn't be this way. A conviction is a conviction and someone, anyone, no matter who they are, even if they have been in office for years they should get a fair trial and if evidence presented and they are guilty then they should be convicted of the crimes they were charged with.
I agree with you. Entirely.
And that is exactly the issue with the ruling.
Trump is just the person enduring this. The real issue is the degradation and corruption of our legal system. The real issue is political persecution. The real issue is people not understanding the implications of all of that. Trust was at absolute minimum eroded in the one piece of society that is crucial to have faith in for The Republic to function.
It is an unprecedented trial and outcome that when framed against history raises all manner of alarm bells.
So I do agree with you. And that’s exactly why this entire situation is incredibly troubling.
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - putnam6 - 06-01-2024
We're need to consider anarcho-syndicalist commune. Where people take turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs, but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major affairs and proceedings.
Dennis was right...
But seriously we have to end the 2 party dominance, there is no reason RFKjr should left out of debates nor should it be so difficult to get him on the ballot.
Our forefathers didn't foresee political parties themselves playing such a major role. Our leadership really ought to be about the person, not the party or the politics. WE were not supposed to be led by career politicians, instead, the hopes were our best and brightest would sacrifice 4-6 years to ensure the country's direction was sound and just.
The double-digit term Senators and Congress persons, need to be reduced to one term.
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - BeyondKnowledge - 06-01-2024
She turned me into a newt..... I got better....
Might I suggest 10 years max for life for anyone in any elected office in the United States of America. I would suggest it for the world but I don't want to sound like a globalist.
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - 727Sky - 06-01-2024
A little history
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - Waterglass - 06-01-2024
(05-31-2024, 01:29 PM)K218b Wrote: In a historic case Donald Trump became the first former US President to be convicted of a crime. The sentencing is scheduled for July 11. A panel of 12 jurors unanimously found Trump guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records. Falsifying records shows intention and knowledge of the situation and the jurors found him guilty of falsification of business records to cover up another crime and this is clearly described as illegal payment contributions (which were not recorded) to further his campaign.
No right vs left please and political tribalism. This isn't ATS.
With all the drugs trafficking and child trafficking this is IMO all a political witchhunt. For what? A $130,000 payment to a hooker? There are so many in Congress on the take. So how is it Nancy Pelosi is a stock market picking genious. Just like AOC took her own exams at Boston University? Right.
I have been written to by a former Special Agent that every supervisory position on up in all of USA government across all Federal Agencies are corrupted to the core and compromised.
Its over
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - putnam6 - 06-01-2024
(06-01-2024, 01:18 AM)BeyondKnowledge Wrote: She turned me into a newt..... I got better....
Might I suggest 10 years max for life for anyone in any elected office in the United States of America. I would suggest it for the world but I don't want to sound like a globalist.
Hell 10 years is too long in my estimation, maybe do it like the weatherman and temperatures. For example, Biden has only been President for 3 1/2 years, but it FEELS like he has been President for 10 years.
I can't think of a Senator, Congressperson, Governor, or Mayor where I'd need to see them serve 10 years.
The 7-year itch rule applies... after getting screwed by the same person for 6-7 years you are usually ready for a little variety.
(05-31-2024, 09:48 PM)Byrd Wrote: The next phase will be interesting.
Well, all the added publicity and making Trump seem to be attacked, sure did help his campaign finances a lot. Now his base is re-energized even more than his campaign coffers. LOL if they wanted to end Trump's campaign this probably isn't effective.
Predictably...
now will the Republican Party cut bait and go with Nikki Haley?
The political theater ALONE is tiresome, detrimental, and distracting from what our politicians should be doing...
![[Image: Screenshot-2024-06-01-10-39-13-431.jpg]](https://i.ibb.co/CpyjYZW/Screenshot-2024-06-01-10-39-13-431.jpg)
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - K218b - 06-01-2024
(05-31-2024, 02:50 PM)Coop Wrote: If he gets elected can he pardon himself?
No
(05-31-2024, 02:54 PM)DBCowboy Wrote: A sham trial, a kangaroo court, election interference by the Biden administration.
Prove it.
Going around and looking at the reaction by supporters of the former president it has emerged that there is no way Trump can ever be guilty about anything, even if he is and even if he has been convicted.
(06-01-2024, 04:32 AM)727Sky Wrote: A little history
[Video: https://youtu.be/ZfIMO-glGFc]
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-charges-conviction-guilty-verdict/
Quote:Trump was charged with 34 counts of falsification of business records in the first degree, which is a felony in New York. He pleaded not guilty when he was arraigned last year.
In 2017, Cohen and Allen Weisselberg, an executive at the Trump Organization, reached an agreement about how Cohen would be repaid for the $130,000 that he sent to Daniels in exchange for her silence. Weisselberg detailed the calculations in handwritten notes that were shown to the jury at trial.
Cohen would receive $130,000 for the Daniels payment, plus $50,000 intended for a technology company that did unrelated work for Trump. That amount was doubled to account for taxes that Cohen would have to pay on the income. Weisselberg then tacked on an extra $60,000 as a bonus for Cohen, who was upset that his regular year-end award had been cut. The total worked out to $420,000.
Prosecutors said Trump knew the payments were to reimburse Cohen for the Daniels payment, not for his legal expenses.
Under New York law, falsification of business records is a crime when the records are altered with an intent to defraud. To be charged as a felony, prosecutors must also show that the offender intended to "commit another crime" or "aid or conceal" another crime when falsifying records.
In Trump's case, prosecutors said that other crime was a violation of a New York election law that makes it illegal for "any two or more persons" to "conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means," as Justice Juan Merchan explained in his instructions to the jury.
What exactly those "unlawful means" were in this case was up to the jury to decide. Prosecutors put forth three areas that they could consider: a violation of federal campaign finance laws, falsification of other business records or a violation of tax laws.
The full verdict because it has emerged again on social media that a range of his supporters 'don't understand' why Trump was found guilty and they have been trying to gaslight everyone else. It's like speaking to religious people about their religion who will defend until the end of times.
RE: Donald Trump found guilty on all counts in ‘hush money’ trial - BeTheGoddess - 06-01-2024
(05-31-2024, 09:48 PM)Byrd Wrote: BUT (here's the interesting thing) -- how do we prevent this situation in the future? What steps need to be taken to assure the public that the person they elect for president is not involved in criminal acts?
You might not like this but compulsory voting here in Australia means either extreme "sides" dont have as much effect on the total vote.
And its not just the USA I think will benifet from, the UK needs it even more right now.
