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+--- Thread: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory (/Thread-What-they-are-saying-in-Russia-about-Trump-s-victory)
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - Kurokage - 11-09-2024
(11-09-2024, 11:19 AM)RussianTroll Wrote: After all, Ukraine has no sovereignty
Thats incorrect....
https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=08000002803e6fae
![[Image: Screenshot%202024-11-09%20162957.jpg]](https://denyignorance.com/uploader/images/Screenshot%202024-11-09%20162957.jpg)
Quote:The Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation, also known as the "Big Treaty", was an agreement signed in 1997 between Ukraine and Russia, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another's country respectively, and declaring war. Due to the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014, Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty on 19 September 2018
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - UltraBudgie - 11-09-2024
enjoy traditional ukranian dish! chew well:
no jokes about trump being fat now!
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - Maxmars - 11-09-2024
(11-09-2024, 11:13 AM)Kurokage Wrote: NATO as you well know was originally set up purely as a defensive arrangement, with no intention of attacking anyone and its independent members agreeing to defend each other against attack. During the Cold War it was used as a detterant against the USSR nuclear threat. After the USSR loss of the cold war and following collapse, many previously 'occupied' states believed that membership of NATO was a way of protecting against any future Russian aggression. After Putins invasion of Ukraine, I'd say it was a good idea.
Russian Troll in his many threads on ATS and now here has always said Russia wasn't fighting Ukraine but NATO, if that was true then why did Putin invade in the first place? Why would Putin want confilict with NATO? It's just out right fabrication.
Respectfully, your post makes me think of things that might seem to challenge your assertions...
Of course, the institution of NATO had a purpose to counter what was the gigantic 'fear fodder' of the day... that communism and "the Reds" would sweep the world as an economic and social dominator. All things "Red" were to be at least ostracized, at worst destroyed outright, insofar as Western leadership was concerned. NATO's existence was rendered moot with the fall of the notional Soviet Union, and very soon after, their new 'marketing' began... repopulating the menace with every and any communist nation, and even disparaging socialism as it's "cousin."
It was never clear that "Russia" was strategically driven to expand. But every Russian effort made to restore some semblance of their previous prosperity was so designated. These are political contrivances, not ideological. NATO was a clearing house for billions of dollars... mostly American... I believe some in America find it's future to be 'suspect'... (hence the DHS who became the de facto "new" clearing house for funneling taxpayer money to private commercial enterprise (the supranational MIC?)...
Why would NATO become so intimately involved with 'controlling' the governance of Ukraine? Why would they risk international blow-back by antagonizing the very neighbor they were seeking to 'defend' themselves against. And what is NATO? A nation? A state in and of itself? How is it so empowered as to be able to engage in the way it did? And did no "member" state object, or cast a deciding vote? I think not... NATO has been digging its own grave for decades.
Why two nations clash is always centered on who 'steers' that nation...
NATO played the game of international political chess... badly.
Then
Russia responded... badly.
Ukraine's leadership tried to exploit the situation... badly.
The three wrongs ended up killing hundreds of thousands, destroying lives and livelihoods, resources, and infrastructure... for what?... so NATO could engender yet more military expenditures for "defense"? Russia committed to destruction for what? So Russians could "have Ukraine back" and fill it full of military equipment and people?
This is a war of 'disguised objectives.' No one wins, and no one gains... and for what? Freedom from fear?... that's a long wait for a train that's never coming.
No, this is a money thing... it's for the sale of weapons and the enrichment of the black market.
By the way, I don't speak of individual members as "functionaries" of agendas.
Each member is always free to have an agenda of their own crafting...
If we start exchanging definitions of each other the tit for tat would never end.
"Defense" is always the claim of those who start modern wars... always.
"Defense" is always the reason that nations spent money to buy offensive weapons.
This version of "tit for tat" seems to always end in death... and "the people" for whom it is all "done" are to stand in the rubble... installing new weapons for defense.
Sorry for the long response...
While I lack the devotion to NATO's honorable sanctity, I fault Russia's continuing practice of applying destructive military force for "show"... This conflict is literally idiotic.
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - jaded - 11-09-2024
Putin's always been firm on Ukraine not joining NATO.
Last I heard the US just couldn't keep their fingers out of it with prodding from Euro's. The US was complicit in placing Zelenski in office & meddling in Ukraines internal's. The reality of Putin meant what he said an it's costing the US out the wazoo is ridiculous. We should have never gotten involved since all we've accomplished is making Black Rock wealthier an getting a bunch of people on both sides dead & poorer.
We had a decent agreement at Minsk but the CIA quashed it.
The above is a synopsis.
The LAST thing we need to be doing is co-opting Europe. One glance at their economies shows that in no way can the US afford that debacle. We have our own dumpster fires, no need to adopt a few more.
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - pianopraze - 11-09-2024
We were fighting Russia in Vietnam.
We were fighting Russia in Afghanistan.
We were fighting Russia in Iran.
We are fighting Russia in Ukrain.
We are fighting China in Korea.
We are fighting China in the Philippines.
We are fighting China in Taiwan.
The use of proxies does not obfuscate reality. This in one of the few thing I agree upon with the OP.
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - Oldcarpy2 - 11-09-2024
(11-09-2024, 08:53 AM)RussianTroll Wrote: Hello! Let's clarify the initial data for your questions, they will help you understand Russian logic and my answers.
1. In Ukraine, there is a war not between Russia and Ukraine, but between NATO and Russia. All civilized countries in the world already understand this. Hence the logical outcome of the war - who should negotiate with each other.
2. So far, no one has seen North Korean fighters in Russia and Ukraine. When/if they appear, then a substantive discussion can take place. There is a mutual agreement between Russia and North Korea, one of the points of which is point 5 of the NATO treaty on mutual military assistance. This agreement has normal international significance according to international law. So the complaints about North Korean troops are nothing more than complaints. Everything is legitimate. This is in case troops appear somewhere, I will not comment on Western fakes and provocations.
According to your logic, Ukrainian troops are expendable material in the war against Russia. Let's avoid double standards.
What about some "political pressure inside the country", unlike Ukraine, where there is a banal catching of men and forced mobilization, in Russia the army is replenished by volunteers. This is a big difference for understanding the morale of society and the army.
OK....so, you are claiming that Russian soldiers are "replenished" (a nice way of describing replacing dead and wounded!) by volunteers?
No conscription?
Pure propaganda. And lies.
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - FlyersFan - 11-09-2024
(11-09-2024, 11:19 AM)RussianTroll Wrote: After all, Ukraine has no sovereignty.
As usual .... NOT TRUE.
Ukraine became a sovereign country August 24, 1991.
Declaration confirmed this on December 1, 1991, where about 90% of voters supported independence.
https://press.un.org/en/2022/ga12458.doc.htm
With 143 Votes in Favour, 5 Against, General Assembly Adopts Resolution Condemning Russian Federation’s Annexation of Four Eastern Ukraine Regions.
Russias Invasion of Sovereign Country of Ukraine Violates International Law
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-russias-invasion-ukraine-violates-international-law
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - FlyersFan - 11-09-2024
(11-09-2024, 08:53 AM)RussianTroll Wrote: In Ukraine, there is a war not between Russia and Ukraine, but between NATO and Russia. .... in Russia the army is replenished by volunteers.
As usual ... BOTH of these are NOT TRUE.
https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1169464889/russia-military-draft-ukraine-war
Russia has a military draft.
Russia forces conscripts to stay in Russia not allowing them to flee.
Russia sends notices to draftees via electronic mail.
As soon as the notice is sent .. it is binding.
If Russian Army was staffed by volunteers alone, hundreds of thousands of young Russian men wouldn't have dodged the draft and escaped the country.
And if the war was between Russia and NATO, then Russia would be destroyed by now.
It's a war between Russia and Ukraine, with some aid coming in to Ukraine from foreign countries.
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - FlyersFan - 11-09-2024
(11-09-2024, 08:53 AM)RussianTroll Wrote: 2. So far, no one has seen North Korean fighters in Russia and Ukraine.
As usual ... this is NOT TRUE.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c14le0p4310o
Ukraine reports engaging North Korean soldiers.
First engagement was November 4th. Kursk region of Russia.
They were wearing Russian uniforms, not North Korean ones.
RE: What they are saying in Russia about Trump's victory - Oldcarpy2 - 11-09-2024
This weekend we here in the UK we have Remembrance for all those that gave their today's for our tomorrows.
Including our brave sailors that died in the convoys that supplied arms and munitions and desperately needed supplies in WW2 to Russia.
I wonder if RT might have the decency and gratitude to recognise and thank our fallen for their sacrifices for your nation?
