+- Deny Ignorance (https://denyignorance.com)
+-- Forum: Main Forums (https://denyignorance.com/Section-Main-Forums)
+--- Forum: General Conspiracies (https://denyignorance.com/Section-General-Conspiracies)
+--- Thread: Conspiracy Realism. (/Thread-Conspiracy-Realism)
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - Karl12 - 05-26-2024
(05-26-2024, 10:04 AM)VulcanWerks Wrote: History is littered with many “conspiracy theories” that turn out to be fact.
I don’t think it really matters though.
Mate did you not read the content about the 2019 FBI document labelling conspiracy theorists a 'threat' or the 'study' claiming CTs may make you a 'criminal' or the ex British PM proclaiming conspiracy theorists 'just as dangerous as ISIS'?
It seems it matters a great deal to them.
(05-26-2024, 10:04 AM)VulcanWerks Wrote: “Conspiracy theories” are just the study of “what’s really going on”. If someone wants to plant the flag that any thought or observation that runs contrary to the “official narrative” is somehow unsmart then they are welcome to that stance.
Yes, well said and your comments did put me in mind of this very curious proclamation from August, 2022.
Quote:UN Declares War on ‘Dangerous’ Conspiracy Theories: ‘The World Is NOT Secretly Manipulated By Global Elite’
The United Nations has declared war on conspiracy theories, describing the rise of conspiracy thinking as “worrying and dangerous”, and providing the public with a toolkit to “prebunk” and “debunk” anybody who dares to suggest that world governments are anything but completely honest, upstanding and transparent.
The UN also warns that George Soros, the Rothschilds and the State of Israel must not be linked to any “alleged conspiracies.”
One thinks they doth protest too much lol.
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - Karl12 - 05-26-2024
(05-26-2024, 10:04 AM)VulcanWerks Wrote: If someone isn’t open minded enough to at least consider alternate trains of thought or perspective it’s just not worth your time to try and educate them.
I see where you're coming from regarding 'trains of thought' but suppose this research thread is more about 'factual reality' (and if a person can't handle that then good luck to them).
There's a relevant example below dealing with directed war deception and congressional testimony fabricated by 'public relations' firm Hill and Knowltown.
I remember this being on TV at the time and everyone being played like a fiddle.
Quote:Nurse Nayirah" in the media, was a fifteen-year-old Kuwaiti girl, who alleged that she had witnessed the murder of infant children by Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait, in verbal testimony to the U.S. Congress, in the run up to the 1991 Gulf War.
Reality:
Quote:In 1991, the world was introduced to the emotional story of Nayirah, a Kuwaiti girl who testified about the atrocities committed by Iraqi forces in Kuwait.
What the world was never told was that the incident had in fact been the work of a public relations firm, Hill and Knowltown, and the girl had actually been the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador.
Faking It: How the Media Manipulates the World into War
Maybe, once people realize blatant deception like this actually goes on they'll be less open to such blatant manipulation in the future - especially when it comes to inciting open warfare with other countries.
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - VulcanWerks - 05-26-2024
(05-26-2024, 12:30 PM)Karl12 Wrote: Mate did you not read the content about the 2019 FBI document labelling conspiracy theorists a 'threat' or the 'study' claiming CTs may make you a 'criminal' or the ex British PM proclaiming conspiracy theorists 'just as dangerous as ISIS'?
It seems it matters a great deal to them.
Yes, well said and your comments did put me in mind of this very curious proclamation from August, 2022.
One thinks they doth protest too much lol.
All fair points Karl.
Here’s where “Conspiracy Theorists” go wrong IMO - an example:
Ukraine.
Ukraine is engaged in a math problem. They don’t have the people, the resources, the training or anything else to defeat Russia. They just don’t and never have. It was a losing proposition from the jump.
Ok, so if that’s true (which time has proven to be true) then what’s all of this about? I’m just a dude on the internet but managed to forecast this outcome more-less instantly. That tells me people with much more knowledge must have known this as well.
So, what’s it about?
Conspiracy Theorists claim “global cabal!” or “zionatzi’s” or “JB!!!”. That’s the weird and actually concerning “conspiracy” angle they’re talking about.
The rationale thought is seeing what has come of the Ukraine engagement. Specifically, expanding NATO, moving NATO closer to Russia, material NATO defense spending, proliferation of US tech throughout those new regions, creating a much larger US presence in the Arctic and continuing to strain or somewhat impact Russian resources. It has also fractured Russian relations with the rest of the world and creates a much more formalized bi-polar world power structure. It set the stage for Ukrainian NATO integration where the US will rebuild it, arm it to the teeth and put Moscow within range of high-value Russian targets. We also have depopulated a huge chunk of a country. We’ve also choked off reliance on Russian gas while the US ramps production - a win for the US and a loss for Western Europe (but a boon to the Nordic countries).
That’s a lot of goals accomplished. Strategic ones. No conspiracy required.
All my commentary boils down to simply seeing what is being done and applying some broader perspective to strategic impacts.
Said another way, thinking.
Where I kind of SMH is when I hear someone say “We have to help save the Ukrainian people!” That person is a ding dong, IMO, because this has nothing to do with saving the Ukrainian people - that’s just the talking point to sell the war effort. I also don’t love the “conspiracy theorists” who come up with whacky stuff.
In regards to the “elite overloads” my reaction is… well obviously they exist. Continuity of government. Continuity of business. If people think the world changes with every election they’re not thinking. Of course it doesn’t. And that makes perfect sense - you have to have continuity. I actually don’t mind that and would be much more concerned if continuity didn’t exist. But, make no mistake, there are almost certainly people you have never heard of who wield far more durable strategic influence than anyone you are aware of. It has to be that way for many valid/non-consoiratorial reasons.
I certainly don’t have it “all figured out” but I can say that my commentary above isn’t a “conspiracy”, it’s analysis. It’s a realization that governments are just giant corporations. It’s a realization that we’re told there is low/middle/upper class when analysis suggests those bands are over-simplified.
So, yeah, there are rulers/leaders/guiders of the Western World (and I intentionally say Western World) and you can’t really fight that. There isn’t a huge need to. Just work with it.
Now, if you want a “conspiracy theory” to cap this off, I’ve started researching what became of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. They didn’t go quietly and many things that are occurring in the here-and-now seem to rhyme mightily with what occurred before its demise. Probably isn’t much to that, but, it’s interesting reading from a historical perspective. So there’s a rabbit hole to chase.
Cheers.
(05-26-2024, 01:42 PM)Karl12 Wrote: I see where you're coming from regarding 'trains of thought' but suppose this research thread is more about 'factual reality' (and if a person can't handle that then good luck to them).
There's a relevant example below dealing with directed war deception and congressional testimony fabricated by 'public relations' firm Hill and Knowltown.
I remember this being on TV at the time and everyone being played like a fiddle.
[Video: https://youtu.be/LmfVs3WaE9Y]
Reality:
Maybe, once people realize blatant deception like this actually goes on they'll be less open to such blatant manipulation in the future - especially when it comes to inciting open warfare with other countries.
You have to make sure “the people” think they’re “the good guys”.
If we said “We’re using Ukraine to weaken Russia, break their society, change their way of life and imposing our system on theirs to grow our economy and significantly expanding our broader military capability” then people would be way less open to it.
I, on the other hand, would say “well OK. That at least makes sense.”
I de facto serve the NATO empire with eyes wide open. We live in a “you vs. me” or an “us vs. them” world. A hostile world at that.
So when a US CSG shows up with a NATO flotilla alongside - which represents The Death Star to our adversaries - I’ll hang my NATO flag outside and continue to support the empire. Whether we use that force to its full capability is another matter. Fact is it’s a hell of a lot of force is brought to bear. That includes Israel since I don’t hate Jewish people.
Conspiracy theorists sometimes dont get that they’re fighting against something that, at times, actually provides them with material benefit (and I don’t just mean stuff) that wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for The Empire. It could be way, way worse.
We live in a complicated world.
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - Karl12 - 05-27-2024
(05-26-2024, 01:42 PM)VulcanWerks Wrote: We live in a complicated world.
We certainly do - I don't think anyone's even brought up the subject of Ukraine (or NATO) on this thread but thanks for sharing your opinions - I also thought you made some fair points.
Would say this video dealing with CIA 'open secrets' and factual 'regime change' of democratically elected governments in various countries is worth a watch.
It also speculates about how well funded, non governmental foundations financially sponsor activist groups, agitators and agent provocateurs to create massive civil unrest.
It certainly sounds a bit familiar to what's going on nowadays in Western societies but that's probably just me being 'conspiratorial'.
You mention that you are aware of 'many conspiracy theories that turn out to be fact' - can you share any for the sake of the thread subject?
Also, regarding 'historical' aspects would say there's a really relevant interview below dealing with the findings of the Reece Committee tasked with investigating certain 'non profit' organizations (like Carnegie and Rockefeller).
Head researcher Norman Dodd explains below how they were specifically responsible for the subversion of the American education system (particularly the subject of History).
From 13:40
Quote:Norman Dodd was interviewed in 1982 by G. Edward Griffin regarding the time he spent as the head researcher for the Reece Committee.
This is a truly eye opening look into what the tax exempt foundations are doing in the United States - their attempt to merge the Soviet System of Government with the USA.
Archive Repository Of Reece Committee Documents
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - 727Sky - 05-27-2024
They call it democracy with a slight twist. Those who agree with those in power count while those who disagree are sent to jail or worse.. Absolute Masters of misdirection and intimidation.
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - Karl12 - 05-27-2024
(05-27-2024, 03:10 AM)727Sky Wrote: Absolute Masters of misdirection and intimidation.
Yes indeed mate and thanks to the 2012 'alterations' of the 1948 Smith-Mundt Act the U.S. taxpayers are now actively funding their own propagandist indoctrination and brainwashing - it would all be pretty hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.
Really would like to know who was directly responsible for that 'amendment' and where the buck actually stopped.
Anyway the link is long gone but your post did remind me of this quote from Psy-Ops research.
Quote:• "It is the general strategy of the ruling establishment to weaponize the ignorance of the masses in order to better control populations and in order to mobilize the masses in service of agendas that are not in the best interests of the citizenry."
Also thought this video deserved a spot on the thread as it deals with the real time reality of well funded 'internet trolls' in the form of government CoIntelPro disinfo agents and intel operative shills.
Quote:Government plans to monitor and influence internet communications, and covertly infiltrate online communities in order to sow dissension and disseminate false information, have long been the source of speculation.
Harvard Law Professor Cass Sunstein, a close Obama adviser and the White House’s former head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, wrote a controversial paper in 2008 proposing that the US government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-”independent” advocates to “cognitively infiltrate” online groups and websites, as well as other activist groups.
Sunstein also proposed sending covert agents into “chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups” which spread what he views as false and damaging “conspiracy theories” about the government.
LINKS:
HOW COVERT AGENTS INFILTRATE THE INTERNET TO MANIPULATE, DECEIVE, AND DESTROY REPUTATIONS (PDF)
The ART of DECEPTION C. IGCHO. TRAINING FOR A NEW GENERATION OF ONLINE COVERT OPERATIONS
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - jaded - 05-27-2024
For S & Giggles I've been checking out Dark Journalist over on YT. Daniel Listz was the first to break the Blue whatever program that never got off the ground. He's currently on a roll with Kennedy & Hemingway's papers being the reason for the Cuba debacle. Plus the mystery schools involvement in underwater monoliths in the Caribbean. Had he not cited our other Area 51, a island we use for marine shennanigans I might have wandered off.
Sorry the names are escaping me. The island begins with a "A" IIRC. Tried to google it but there seems to be a just a dark spot there between Cuba and the Bahamas and the Dominican Republic.
Awhile back it was mentioned the govt is going to a LOT of trouble keeping us looking UP, so what are we missing? Listz may not have everything correct, but underwater seem's probable.
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - Karl12 - 05-28-2024
(05-27-2024, 04:34 PM)jaded Wrote: For S & Giggles I've been checking out Dark Journalist over on YT.
Mate think you may have posted on the wrong thread (and forum).
Don't get me wrong have actually got a lot of respect for Listz exposing CIA Elizondo shenanigans but this thread is (trying to be) about conspiracy theories which were later proved 'true' (or gov antics later proved 'false').
If you know of any examples then please post - here's a good one involving a staged fake FEMA news conference lol.
Am sure there are still people out there that watched this and are completely unaware it was complete bollocks.
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - jaded - 05-29-2024
Right thread, really poorly exlained tho!
Will be back to clarify!
RE: Conspiracy Realism. - Karl12 - 05-29-2024
(05-29-2024, 04:48 PM)jaded Wrote: Right thread, really poorly exlained tho!
Will be back to clarify!
No worries mate and apologies if I misunderstood.
Thought Dolan made some excellent points here about the conspiracy realism subject and 'cognitive dissonance'.
Also on the importance of questioning the motives of global technocrats.
Quote:You're not supposed to believe in "conspiracy theories," despite the fact that conspiracies and shenanigans by the powerful are all around us, especially now that we are living through a top-down directed global revolution against ordinary people.
