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+--- Thread: Location data for sale... "FCC can't punish us!" (/Thread-Location-data-for-sale-FCC-can-t-punish-us)
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - ArMaP - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 10:22 AM)Quantum12 Wrote: Wow! I wonder about in court. A good defense lawyer you come up with a crazy story, he would tell Jeff to leave his phone at home the next time you go out and kill someone!
It's the same as using fingerprints or DNA.
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - UltraBudgie - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 10:15 AM)Maxmars Wrote: And we, as users of the Internet, have we any say whatsoever?
You could push for "communications and data" being added to the 4th amendment, I suppose. That might close some legal loopholes. But that wouldn't prevent individuals from waiving those rights via contract, as you have done with websites, ISP, carriers, product manufacturers, etc.
I guess you can choose not to use products you find objectionably abusive. Voice of the marketplace and all that.
Current interpretation considers tear-open and click-unread acknowledgement as sufficient informed consent to form a legal agreement under contact law. Evidence enough of a meeting of the minds. As you say, so many don't know what is being done. Maybe try changing that. Good luck.
Edit: I am trying not to be cynical and say you can have all the say you want to say. If the say of a person closed up in a mineshaft a half mile under North Korea matters. Work with that image, and control what you can. Don't stress so much. It is a large beautiful universe beyond cell phones, spooks and marketers.
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - pianopraze - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 10:22 AM)Quantum12 Wrote: Wow! I wonder about in court. A good defense lawyer would come up with a crazy story, he would tell Jeff to leave his phone at home the next time you go out and kill someone!
How long until it’s suspicious behavior to leave your phone at home and be punishable offense?
Big brother would have loved this.
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - Quantum12 - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 12:44 PM)pianopraze Wrote: How long until it’s suspicious behavior to leave your phone at home and be punishable offense?
Big brother would have loved this.
lol! It’s now the in thing to leave your cell phone at home before you wack someone.
The worst for my 16 year old is the app my ex put on his phone tracks his every movement.
I think it’s a privacy issue and not letting him be a kid. I called his mom, we talked about the app and she agreed to delete it. Life 360 app removed!
She said it’s use was for safety only but she kept calling my son and asking why he was at a certain location!
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - UltraBudgie - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 12:44 PM)pianopraze Wrote: How long until it’s suspicious behavior to leave your phone at home and be punishable offense?
Big brother would have loved this.
It is already punished financially if you don't provide location data with your vehicle, with the FastTrack system or whatever electronic toll devices. Costs like twice as much to pay by mail, in some states. And they photograph your license plate anyway.
With cell phones it is punished, too, but socially. People really judge you now if you say you don't carry one. And many thing are less convenient. It's easiest to say that it is at home charging. I keep an old cell phone plugged in at home; I don't like to lie.
I guess if it ever becomes mandatory, it will take another generation or so. Enough of the demographics who can't imagine living without one on them at all times. Already if I'm out in the wilderness where there's no cell service or internet-backed map GPS, it feels a little weird. I didn't grow up that way, but became used to it. People now are growing up that way.
(11-10-2024, 01:02 PM)Quantum12 Wrote: The worst for my 16 year old is the app my ex put on his phone tracks his every movement.
You don't need an app for that it's built in with the iPhone -- Share location data. Satellite too for when you're outside cell networks.
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - Quantum12 - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 01:03 PM)UltraBudgie Wrote: It is already punished financially if you don't provide location data with your vehicle, with the FastTrack system or whatever electronic toll devices. Costs like twice as much to pay by mail, in some states. And they photograph your license plate anyway.The share location on iPhone got me it big trouble with my ex. It was way off and she was tracking me.
With cell phones it is punished, too, but socially. People really judge you now if you say you don't carry one. And many thing are less convenient. It's easiest to say that it is at home charging. I keep an old cell phone plugged in at home; I don't like to lie.
I guess if it ever becomes mandatory, it will take another generation or so. Enough of the demographics who can't imagine living without one on them at all times. Already if I'm out in the wilderness where there's no cell service or internet-backed map GPS, it feels a little weird. I didn't grow up that way, but became used to it. People now are growing up that way.
You don't need an app for that it's built in with the iPhone -- Share location data. Satellite too for when you're outside cell networks.
She accused me of being on some odd street far away. I was at work.
I unshared it with her and soon she released me to freedom lol!
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - UltraBudgie - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 01:18 PM)Quantum12 Wrote: The share location on iPhone got me it big trouble with my ex. It was way off and she was tracking me.
She accused me of being on some odd street far away. I was at work.
I unshared it with her and soon she released me to freedom lol!
There is a whole industry around what is collected and collated there -- geofencing. Say you own a store, for example, and you want to know the average income of the people who visit. You can buy that data, because there are aggregators who buy from apple, google, etc., who match up all online tracking with public records with location data, in their magic black box computers, and resell the results of searches on it. Like of those who came within 50 feet of your store, their age ranges, gender, registered political party, income, etc. All the "personally identifying" information is stripped out, enough so it's legal anyway.
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - Quantum12 - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 01:24 PM)UltraBudgie Wrote: There is a whole industry around what is collected and collated there -- geofencing. Say you own a store, for example, and you want to know the average income of the people who visit. You can buy that data, because there are aggregators who buy from apple, google, etc., who match up all online tracking with public records with location data, in their magic black box computers, and resell the results of searches on it. Like of those who came within 50 feet of your store, their age ranges, gender, registered political party, income, etc. All the "personally identifying" information is stripped out, enough so it's legal anyway.
It’s just insane!
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - ArMaP - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 01:24 PM)UltraBudgie Wrote: All the "personally identifying" information is stripped out, enough so it's legal anyway.
Under the GDPR they could only do that if they were authorized by the persons the data was about, as the data for one service cannot be used for anything else unless they are authorized to do it.
RE: Location data for sale... FCC can't punish us! - UltraBudgie - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 01:58 PM)ArMaP Wrote: Under the GDPR they could only do that if they were authorized by the persons the data was about, as the data for one service cannot be used for anything else unless they are authorized to do it.
That's right, I think. In Europe, under the GDPR, data can be collected without explicit consent, however it must be anonymized or encrypted before aggregation, and privacy laws still apply (according to this answer, anyway). This came into focus during covid with health tracking in the public interest and such. That's different from the situation in the USA and other countries, which are more flexible with where in the chain minimization occurs. It's a legal thicket with GDPR, what counts as personal data, anonymized data, and aggregate data, at each step of the process. Especially when dealing with hierarchies of aggregation and correlation. More info here. Consult a lawyer haha.
Here is scary chart with claims about what people are willing to accept:
![[Image: 0*bAWgp5YtVggSHkym.jpg]](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/0*bAWgp5YtVggSHkym.jpg)
More questionable statistics here. I frankly find it hard to believe, but then I look at how most people don't seem to give a damn and I wonder.
