+- Deny Ignorance (https://denyignorance.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic (https://denyignorance.com/Section-Off-Topic)
+--- Forum: Health (https://denyignorance.com/Section-Health)
+--- Thread: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... (/Thread-Ever-quit-antidepressants-The-media-is-telling-stories)
Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - Maxmars - 06-06-2024
Discussing this topic may be a bit difficult for me.
You see, this topic has a personal meaning to me. And it doesn't help that my age means that I belong to a generation which always kept to themselves about such things as depression, anxiety, and the effects of PTSD. My generation mostly gets drunk to self-medicate and/or cope with errant mood swings and other such aspects of the human condition.
Certainly not all of my generation does that, and I am happy of that... but those in my general 'cultural' affectation who actually suffer from the condition aren't looking to "talk out their feelings" with strangers, and barely can confront those feelings with their loved ones.
I will tell you from my perspective (which is as apt to be the problem itself as anything else) I remember several overarching sentiments that I face when I am depressed. Most of them are not nice. First of all, loved ones are as likely to misunderstand depression, anxiety and PTSD as any stranger. It is almost a relief to me that such is the case. It means (or meant) that the people I am talking to probably never really have suffered depression, et al. I find that comforting.
But I (again, being old) have had a lot of experience with people not understanding. Depression isn't "feeling sad." But people treat you as if it were sadness that was the problem. Depression isn't "suicidal"... but every professional will immediately revert to the threat of 'suicide' as the prime focus of their encounter. Depression isn't "about" things. It's not "self-image," it isn't "pressure" or "stress," it isn't something external at all. It comes from inside.
I found myself often being barraged with platitudes and parables... all evoking ideas ranging from "snap out of it," to "be a man," to "buck up" to 'God loves you' and 'eat chocolate.'
People rarely embrace the idea that depression isn't really "about" anything... you can win the lotto and be depressed, you can 'get the girl' or 'win the prize' and still be depressed. Frankly, depression is a physical thing that outwardly manifests itself emotionally.
Medical science has finally begun taking the baby-steps necessary to actually treat the condition. Pharmaceuticals seem to hold promise... but it's NOT anti-depressants as a 'silver bullet.'
We are coming out of a time when Physicians - trained by the pharmaceutical industry - had been assigning a chemical solution to a psychological problem as a "go-to" solution.
Depressed? Pill. Done and done.
I can tell you from my own experience that pills aren't the solution. What's worse, the medicines in the field are largely a "let's try this" affair. "Oh, it makes you uncomfortable?, gives you nightmares?, makes you stay awake all night?... Then let's try this..." and so on, and so on. Of course doctors mean well (God, I hope so,) but negotiating such a deeply personal malady and maintaining a physicians' "clinical detachment" hasn't really been a stellar success (at least in my experience.)
When I ran across this topic, it became clear to me that confusion about depression still abounds...
Check out these headlines:
From CNN: Study finds the rate of withdrawal from quitting antidepressants
Wherein the 15% of people suffered 'withdrawal' symptoms, and the editor immediately plastered a "suicide" PSA before the article. Because "depression" has now become the 'poster child' for suicide. (Not every depressed person is)
From New Scientist: Does coming off antidepressants really cause withdrawal symptoms?
The article cites a 1 in 3 rate of withdrawal symptoms (30%?) but goes on to question if they are 'imagined."
From TheTimes: Antidepressant withdrawal less common than thought
They say "only" 15% of people suffer the withdrawals, reiterating "it's safe under the care of a doctor."
From TheGuardian: Antidepressant withdrawal symptoms experienced by 15% of users, study finds
Where "under one in seven" suffer withdrawals...
I noticed that when the media reports on this, the symptoms are all cast as a "minor" thing... headaches, dizziness, nausea... but I can assure you, there are more severe symptoms available to be blessed with. And I'm sure big pharma will declare "Nonsense... it's all manageable. " I risk to differ.
Suffice to say, these are very typically interesting stories, all spawned by meta research... culled data from 79 different studies and "normalized" so they can be aggregated into a single paper... I'm not inspired with confidence here...
Only CNN was kind enough to actually share the research, which had been published in the Lancet: Incidence of antidepressant discontinuation symptoms: a systematic review and meta-analysis
Which stands in contrast to earlier research (2019) which reported over 50% undergo withdrawal symptoms...
From ScienceDirect.com: A systematic review into the incidence, severity and duration of antidepressant withdrawal effects: Are guidelines evidence-based?
I am not going to decry the disparity... there might be emergent commercial reasons for the rash of recent "good news" portraying that not so many people "need to worry about it."
I do. I have family and friends who are tethered to these liver churning, brain-function-shifting, chemical harnesses... and I have a dreadful personal experience related to "stopping the madness" with frequently entrenched pill-pushing technocrats. Very dreadful.
Yes it's chemically related to your brain, yes it could be a chemical signaling error... but that does not represent the "totality" of depression... or anxiety, or many other things which "they have a pill for."
RE: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - l0st - 06-07-2024
Depression. Yes, I agree it is often described as related to suicide but I feel that's more of a symptom of the larger problem.
I don't believe the meds like SSRIs really do anything in most cases. First of all, big pharma can't even tell you how the meds you bought are supposed to work -- red flag. There are no long term studies showing conclusive evidence of efficacy -- red flag. There are no real treatment guidelines or studies showing how the meds are to be administered effectively -- red flag.
There certainly seems to be plenty of evidence that these meds make people crazy. Virtually every mass shooter is on SSRIs. SSRI usage over 90% among the gender confused. Take a look at the death row consortium and you'll find every single one prescribed SSRIs. Gen Z seemingly can't handle life in general and over 60% are on SSRIs.
I don't believe in coincidences.
Its easy to become "depressed" when the world around you are all on meds that artificially grant dopamine hits to every nutcase idea that pops in their heads and everything "feels good" because their brains have been artificially stimulated to think so and you're considered the outlier because you're the only one who's not on mind altering drugs on a multi dose a day basis.
RE: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - Maxmars - 06-07-2024
(06-07-2024, 01:10 AM)l0st Wrote: Depression. Yes, I agree it is often described as related to suicide but I feel that's more of a symptom of the larger problem.
I have come to realize there are a lot of larger problems which are not addressed when it comes to depression. Foremost is the use of the word in media. Mostly, they parrot the simplistic explanations that their sources resort to when describing something that needs more than a tabloid's perspectives.
I believe that one does not "get" depressed. It is not the cumulation of stresses and sorrows... those are only incidental to the depressed state. In many ways, it is what depressed people must cling to as they are pressed over and over "to explain what's wrong" (even to themselves.) In that state, you often "pick something, anything" to focus your angst and attention on... And suddenly your depression can "be explained away" as relating to a circumstance (most of which can have a describable point of solution.) And many depressed people become dismayed when they "solution" is offered (and even carried out) and they find no consolation or diminishing of their grief. Depression comes from inside you.
I didn't want to foray into my utter dissatisfaction about the entire "prescribe SSRIs and it's fixed" attitude of physicians. I have lost respect for the many doctors who simply prescribe what they do because of the "little pharmaceutical booklet" and what it says. Especially when they know they can't explain it, how it works, or what exactly is the problem... and by that I mean more than "concepts" about brain physiology that only have meaning "in theory."
There may be some real points of concern in your observation regarding generational mental health. But then, there are salient social considerations as well... but that might be another matter entirely.
RE: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - Karl12 - 06-07-2024
(06-06-2024, 11:24 PM)Maxmars Wrote: I have family and friends who are tethered to these liver churning, brain-function-shifting, chemical harnesses... and I have a dreadful personal experience related to "stopping the madness" with frequently entrenched pill-pushing technocrats. Very dreadful.
Very sorry to hear that Maxmars and thought 'pill-pushing technocrats' was a very good description.
There's a short clip below about 'dosing' the military and the part where they list the psychotropics around 3:10 is outrageous (it's been described as facing a kind of 'psycho-pharmacological firing squad').
Video
RE: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - Maxmars - 06-07-2024
(06-07-2024, 01:51 AM)Karl12 Wrote: Very sorry to hear that Maxmars and thought 'pill-pushing technocrats' was a very good description.
There's a short clip below about 'dosing' the military and the part where they list the psychotropics around 3:10 is outrageous (it's been described as facing a kind of 'psycho-pharmacological firing squad').
Video
Thank you... sort of...
I just watched that video and want to confirm for any who doubt that when you are trained in military service, one of the things you are told is that "prescriptions are medical orders."
Some of these vets need real help... not a pat on the head and a pill regime... I have been subjected to the entire gamut... it's not a pretty picture.
(I can't tell you how many 'unknown' vaccines we were given... "What is this?" and they would rattle off a number/letter code and pop! move on..."Next.")
Medications were NEVER refused in my day... and going to the psychiatrist, or psychologist, or even a "therapist/counselor" was a HUGE black question mark that you will be given grief about.
And the VA? No one wants to hear the truth about the VA today... No one.
RE: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - Karl12 - 06-07-2024
Once again genuinely sorry to hear that and the clinical psychologist found at 5:50 in that video describes what he saw happening at the V.A. as 'criminal'.
Looks like many other health professionals feel the same way and there's a similar sentiment below.
Quote:• “All psychiatrists have in common that when they are caught on camera or on microphone, they cower and admit that there are no such things as chemical imbalances/diseases, or examinations or tests for them. What they do in practice, lying in every instance, abrogating [revoking] the informed consent right of every patient and poisoning them in the name of ‘treatment’ is nothing short of criminal.”
Dr. Fred Baughman Jr., Pediatric Neurologist
RE: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - Tecate - 06-07-2024
Maxmars, to your original question, “ Have you ever quit antidepressants?”
Yes I have. I was on Effexor for about 4.5 years and it was a special hell that I finally decided to escape from. My physician and ex-wife peer pressured me into them believing that I was suffering from PTSD (35 years as a frontline Advanced Care Paramedic) when in reality I was unable to cope with her and her family’s bullshit.
I had read everything I could regarding weaning myself off them first and then just said ok, let’s do this. I had already ridden myself of their insanity and influences so I had nothing to lose.
I started by skipping a day in 4 for about 3 weeks, then skipping one in 3 days etc. until I just quit.
I’m certainly not going to say that it was easy, the “brain zaps”, forgetfulness and sleepless nights were transitory.
Like I have heard from previous drug addicts “ there’s a whole new world on the other side “, I can attest to this.
SSRI’s are the work of the devil. All of a sudden I had emotions, energy and vitality return, enough for people to notice and comment on!!
Knowing physicians as well as I do, I can agree that they truly have no idea what to do with these people and their issues. Most of them truly only know about 8-10 medications well enough to prescribe without looking them up. This is 8-10 medications for anything, NOT antidepressants. I’m talking family doctors here.
Mental health and illness treatment is an absolute shitshow across the board in North America. I can’t speak to other countries, but my wife is a Neuropsychologist in Mexico, and she agrees wholeheartedly that it’s not well understood and treatment modalities are based on ineffectual studies etc.
Tecate
RE: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - K218b - 06-07-2024
(06-07-2024, 09:23 AM)Tecate Wrote: Maxmars, to your original question, “ Have you ever quit antidepressants?”
Yes I have. I was on Effexor for about 4.5 years and it was a special hell that I finally decided to escape from. My physician and ex-wife peer pressured me into them believing that I was suffering from PTSD (35 years as a frontline Advanced Care Paramedic) when in reality I was unable to cope with her and her family’s bullshit.
I had read everything I could regarding weaning myself off them first and then just said ok, let’s do this. I had already ridden myself of their insanity and influences so I had nothing to lose.
I started by skipping a day in 4 for about 3 weeks, then skipping one in 3 days etc. until I just quit.
I’m certainly not going to say that it was easy, the “brain zaps”, forgetfulness and sleepless nights were transitory.
Like I have heard from previous drug addicts “ there’s a whole new world on the other side “, I can attest to this.
SSRI’s are the work of the devil. All of a sudden I had emotions, energy and vitality return, enough for people to notice and comment on!!
Knowing physicians as well as I do, I can agree that they truly have no idea what to do with these people and their issues. Most of them truly only know about 8-10 medications well enough to prescribe without looking them up. This is 8-10 medications for anything, NOT antidepressants. I’m talking family doctors here.
Mental health and illness treatment is an absolute shitshow across the board in North America. I can’t speak to other countries, but my wife is a Neuropsychologist in Mexico, and she agrees wholeheartedly that it’s not well understood and treatment modalities are based on ineffectual studies etc.
Tecate
Sorry to hear what you ve gone through but there is hope. I have zero confidence in medical treatments that target mental health issues. It's my understanding these drugs exacerbate the problem in most cases rather then helping the patient to cope. I don't have personal experience but I get to reviews everyone else who has been in similar positions.
I will agree strongly with what another poster said above, physical exercise and counselling could help very much and if I was you I would have avoided any medication in the first place. But that's me.
RE: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - FlyersFan - 06-07-2024
I don't take antidepressants. I don't know anyone who has. From what I read about them, they can cause more harm than good. I know people on other kinds of mental health medicine - Risperidone. I know it helps them a great deal. They couldn't function without it. So mental health medicine may be a mixed bag ... depending on who is taking it and for what.
My only advice about medications ... don't take advice from random people on this, or any other, discussion forum. When someone comes on here and tells you to avoid medication ... then I suggest you avoid doing what that poster says. LISTEN TO YOUR DOCTORS and LISTEN TO THOSE AROUND YOU IN REAL LIFE.
RE: Ever quit antidepressants? The media is telling stories... - K218b - 06-07-2024
(06-07-2024, 11:34 AM)FlyersFan Wrote: I don't take antidepressants. I don't know anyone who has. From what I read about them, they can cause more harm than good. I know people on other kinds of mental health medicine - Risperidone. I know it helps them a great deal. They couldn't function without it. So mental health medicine may be a mixed bag ... depending on who is taking it and for what.
My only advice about medications ... don't take advice from random people on this, or any other, discussion forum. When someone comes on here and tells you to avoid medication ... then I suggest you avoid doing what that poster says. LISTEN TO YOUR DOCTORS and LISTEN TO THOSE AROUND YOU IN REAL LIFE.
So according to you he must blindly listen to those who gave him harmful medications in the first place? Unless he wants to have a second and third opinion from other medical experts I see the whole thing as a recipe for disaster. It's like going to the doctor to get vaccinated with a COVID vaccine and get a series of side effects but the doctor insists you should now get your second dose. Medicine is not an exact science and often things don't go well with the various prescriptions.
