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+--- Thread: Floods in Spain. (/Thread-Floods-in-Spain)
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Floods in Spain. - ArMaP - 11-02-2024
As I haven't seen it reported here I decided to post about the big flash floods that happened this week in Spain and that have killed at least 211 people, with thousands without electricity or water.
The floods were caused by a DANA (Depresión Aislada en Niveles Altos, meaning Isolated Depression at High Levels) storm, a kind of storm that happens when cold air at around 9000 metres is hit by hot and humid air coming from the Mediterranean sea, creating extremely strong rains, with at least one location getting 491 mm per square metre of rain.
After the worst passed, thousands of people went there to help clean and rebuild, with the authorities asking them not to go by road, as they were so many they were blocking the few available roads that could be needed for rescue of any survivors found, as there are still many people missing.
The people is not happy with the official response, as only this area of Spain was badly affected, so they are expecting more help from the local and national governments.
RE: Floods in Spain. - UltraBudgie - 11-02-2024
That video of the cars and mudflood is unbelievable! At first I thought they just had a criminally-bad draining system or something, then I read this:
Quote:Almost a year's worth of rain fell in just eight hours in the worst-affected part of Valencia this week.
A record-breaking 179.2 litres per square metre (7.1 inches) of rain fell in Turis in one hour at the height of the storm, the State Meteorological Agency as said.
Wow! Of course, people are saying the government isn't doing enough, quickly enough, probably because they aren't, but the community and civilian response looks amazing:
Quote:100,000 volunteers register to help
Thousands of volunteers have gathered at the City of Arts and Sciences in Valencia city, ready to set off to the worst-hit areas of the region, reports Spanish news agency Europa Press.
Some 50 buses have begun departing, along with food and water.
The number of people who registered to help exceeds 100,000, according to the Valencian Community Volunteer Platform.
![[Image: lcimg-b2db5a63-239d-403a-92c4-fed03b0545fb.jpeg]](https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-b2db5a63-239d-403a-92c4-fed03b0545fb.jpeg)
This reminds me of the hurricanes in the USA a few weeks (forever) ago!
https://news.sky.com/story/spain-floods-latest-valencia-rain-weather-live-13244547
RE: Floods in Spain. - LightAngel - 11-02-2024
Poor people.
RE: Floods in Spain. - ArMaP - 11-03-2024
(11-02-2024, 09:02 PM)UltraBudgie Wrote: Wow! Of course, people are saying the government isn't doing enough, quickly enough, probably because they aren't, but the community and civilian response looks amazing
One of the reasons people are saying the government isn't doing (and hasn't done) enough is that this kind of storm is local to Spain (that's why the name is in Spanish), so they should have been better prepared for this kind of events.
Naturally, it's not possible to have a way of making all that water disappear, but at least they should have been better prepared for the recovery.
RE: Floods in Spain. - Maxmars - 11-03-2024
I guess no one is ever 'satisfied' with emergency responses, since they would rather they not be necessary, or that there would be no emergency in the first place.
But unless people differ from country to country, we usually have a whole swath of the governing bodies that repeatedly assure that "they're ready" (and give us more money.)
In the end, it's usually the people that do the actual work, and the media that 'tells the stories' of how 'the government' saved us all. Just check the history books.
RE: Floods in Spain. - Encia22 - 11-03-2024
This is very sad. People are very angry because they were alerted too late. Perhaps more lives could have been saved, especially the shopping centre where the 5k+ underground car parking area flooded in minutes... they are sending down scuba divers to assess the situation, which has been described as a cemetery.
Here's an article from the Guardian that sums up pretty well the situation following a visit to one of the worst stricken areas by King Felipe and Queen Letizia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/03/residents-throw-mud-and-insults-at-spanish-king-on-visit-to-flood-hit-town
and here's a quote:
Quote:Hundreds of people have heckled Spain’s King Felipe and Queen Letizia, as well as the prime minister and the regional leader of Valencia – throwing mud and shouting “murderers” – as the group attempted an official visit to one of the municipalities hardest hit by the deadly floods.
The scenes playing out in Paiporta on Sunday laid bare the mounting sense of abandonment among the devastated areas and the lingering anger over why an alert urging residents not to leave home on Tuesday was sent after the flood waters began surging.
Much of the fury appeared to be directed at the elected officials, as calls rang out for the resignation of Pedro Sánchez, the country’s prime minister, and Carlos Mazón, Valencia’s regional leader.
Sánchez was swiftly evacuated as bodyguards used umbrellas to protect the group from the barrage of mud. “What were they expecting?” one furious local asked the newspaper El País. “People are very angry. Pedro Sánchez should have been here on day one with a shovel.”
RE: Floods in Spain. - ArMaP - 11-03-2024
(11-03-2024, 08:55 AM)Maxmars Wrote: In the end, it's usually the people that do the actual work, and the media that 'tells the stories' of how 'the government' saved us all. Just check the history books.
Things are not like that in Portugal and Spain, as the media is more varied, so while some may support the government, none goes as far as saying they saved they day.
On the ground, the king and queen of Spain, along with the prime minister (or government president, as they call it in Spain) and the president of the autonomous region of Valencia, visited the area and were received with shouts of "murderers" and people threw mud at them.
All the Spanish media is talking about and none are saying the government is right.
Edited to add that, according to Wikipedia, Valencia has had up to 75 floods up to the big flood of 1957, that was caused by the some type of event as this one, so it's not something they were not expecting.
Also, a meteorologist warned about that possibility four days before, but people (mostly those that think that global warming/climate change is not real) called him an alarmist and ignored him.
RE: Floods in Spain. - pianopraze - 11-05-2024
(11-03-2024, 08:16 AM)ArMaP Wrote: One of the reasons people are saying the government isn't doing (and hasn't done) enough is that this kind of storm is local to Spain (that's why the name is in Spanish), so they should have been better prepared for this kind of events.
Naturally, it's not possible to have a way of making all that water disappear, but at least they should have been better prepared for the recovery.
One of the things the government is doing is removing damns. Over 200 from one source, this one says 133:
Wef
do you think that is having an impact on flooding?
RE: Floods in Spain. - ArMaP - 11-06-2024
(11-05-2024, 09:03 PM)pianopraze Wrote: One of the things the government is doing is removing damns. Over 200 from one source, this one says 133:
Wef
do you think that is having an impact on flooding?
I don't think so, the dams removed on that area were small.
What I think is a problem (there and everywhere else) is something a Portuguese politician said many years ago, based on his knowledge of landscape architect and agronomy engineering: one of the main reasons for floods in urban areas is the fact that people build houses and roads on areas that should absorb water. When we cover a hill with buildings and roads we are creating a cover that prevents water from entering the ground on all of that hill's surface, and the water has only one way to go, down, so it gathers on the lower areas.
Those areas, in many cases, were, originally, creeks or small rivers, but were replaced with roads, so those areas also prevent the water to enter the ground and we have a large area that should be absorbing water into the ground that is now in fact forcing all the water to move to the lower areas next to it, and those areas are, probably, in the same condition.
So, when we get rains of 200mm per square metre in a couple of hours, all that water has nowhere to go, so it runs down the way it can find, in some cases returning to the original creeks and rivers, in other cases creating new ways.
RE: Floods in Spain. - UltraBudgie - 11-06-2024
(11-06-2024, 03:53 AM)ArMaP Wrote: when we get rains of 200mm per square metre in a couple of hours
That's just under 8" of rain.
You know, I was going to complain about not using Freedom-units here, because I thought there's a forum rule for using English -- real English, like in America, not the weird overseas variety -- but then I got distracted by the entirely redundant "square metre" (I'll let the misspelling slide). Wouldn't it also be 200 mm per square decimeter? Or 200 mm per square centimeter? Or kilometer? Okay, I think I've made my point. Perhaps the Orange Laws of 2025 will address this formally.
Please excuse me it is late, and it is today.
