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Seems like someone was listening.... - Maxmars - 08-14-2024
Eventually, it had to happen...
Let's hope something doesn't come along and kill this...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zeOzpkGLLB8
RE: Seems like someone was listening.... - Tecate - 08-14-2024
Must have already happened…
Won’t work for me.
Tecate
RE: Seems like someone was listening.... - ArMaP - 08-15-2024
(08-14-2024, 11:33 PM)Tecate Wrote: Must have already happened…
Won’t work for me.
Tecate
The link below the video works. Embedding "shorts" videos does not work.
Regarding the topic, it sounds similar to the professional training courses we have in Portugal and in several European countries. Other countries have different educational paths for higher education or professional training.
RE: Seems like someone was listening.... - FlyingClayDisk - 08-15-2024
Good! Great news!!
Hands on experience is invaluable in the real world. Colleges today are WAY overrated for what they produce. I look at course material today compared to when I was in college back in the 80's and I see dramatic differences. Much of the first two years of college now is what I would characterize as 'remedial' (i.e. stuff students should have learned in HS), and the balance of it is 'indoctrination'. College used to be about education, but now it is more about ideology, which is completely different. I could understand this if a college/university was a religious institution, but these are state funded universities I am talking about here.
Plus, tuition costs have gone completely off the rails. College has now become a massive for-profit enterprise at the expense of true 'education'. Some healthy competition is a good thing, a very good thing.
Anecdotally, the skilled trades sector is severely under-resourced right now as well. There is absolutely no shame in taking the skilled trades path as a career choice, and people can often earn as much if not more than in the white collar sectors anymore. Plus, what is considered 'white collar' today has been blurred; the bar has been lowered, with wages following suit. The skilled trades sector doesn't have this problem because it is the skill which defines the level of the bar (and the associated wages). Skilled trade wages have done nothing but go up. Programs such as these open these doors also.
BTW - Your embedded video does not work, but the link to the video below it does work.
RE: Seems like someone was listening.... - ArMaP - 08-15-2024
(08-15-2024, 06:16 AM)FlyingClayDisk Wrote: Good! Hands on experience is invaluable in the real world.
Some years ago, Portugal was in a bad economic situation and many young people moved to other EU countries, mostly to the UK (then part of the EU).
One of the things I do at work is translations, so I translated several school diplomas, and most of those that already had a job waiting for them had diplomas from professional training courses, as, apparently, the Portuguese professional training courses are very good, and people with a two years training course has more knowledge about the studied topic than someone from Germany, for example, with an University diploma.
Also, professional training can be more specific, like we see in the video, something Universities are not good at, even if they are good Universities.
RE: Seems like someone was listening.... - Maxmars - 08-15-2024
Apologies about the video... it is a recurring problem for me now... That's why I try to remember to always include a link underneath.
I really can't say what the problem is... other than a monetization gimmick meant to control traffic by the source.
RE: Seems like someone was listening.... - rickymouse - 08-15-2024
We have the Union here training future workers to get into construction jobs. It is free and funded by contractors in the area who come in and help to prepare the young to find what kind of work interests them and gives them initial training so the contractors do not have to put so much time for their workers to train these people. Some decide that the work doesn't suit them, and that saves contractors money training young people who would never stay in the field.
I like what I saw in the short video, giving the young skills to help them out initially, an employer can actually give them a little better wage right away and skip the train in wage. Of course, they cannot give a full wage, because it takes time for people to learn to work together symbiotically in a business. But even if they get up to a year wage point, they are doing much better financially.
I could pay someone who had experience better than those young who had no previous experience. They had a college program here to train students which the student had to pay for with student loans, those students believed they were more knowledgeable than the people at the mine that had years of experience...they got rid of that line they started for those students, choosing just a few to implement into their workforce that didn't have swollen heads from having a degree.
I worked with some people who had college degrees, they were convinced they were smarter than others, even me. My IQ was in the ninety nine percentile, it allows me to see things that others cannot see. In fact the guy who taught one of those things at the college asked me for advice quite often in building so he could teach it to his class. He might have been educated in reading things from a book, but had no practical first hand experience at doing things.
I think every state should do programs like this and fund much of them and work with employers more. But, you know how it is, overeducated idiots run the programs, people with book knowledge and little actual experience at things.
RE: Seems like someone was listening.... - Maxmars - 08-15-2024
I just hope this trend continues (if we can call it a trend.)
You see, there has been a entrenched bias, coming explicitly from the college-educated in large part, that not having a college education is a "deficit."
It troubled me that people actually thought that the only place one could learn practical and useful information was from a university.
When I went to university, I discovered that most professors didn't actually teach, relegating that task to "assistants" and the diligence of the students who 'have been told' what to buy and read for the material subject. In fact, if a student were imagining they were going to be "taught" they were in for a surprise... because the onus is on them to prepare themselves to pass tests, and the professor doesn't really 'care' about any particular student (generally speaking.) Then there was the experience of sitting in a "theater-sized" classroom with a hundred other students...
I found myself completely unprepared for the 'call for personal diligence' in study, when all my experiences in high school were in large part 'success with little effort.' When the system you are being educated in isn't stellar, it became "easy" to do well.
However, university study was 'hard' and ill-suited for someone with little motivation to jump through hoops in "requirement classes" that have little (and often nothing) to do with their passion subject...
Ironically, I actually succeeded in two separate career paths in a university setting... and speaking to those there was like interviewing 'partisans' at a book burning... even my questions about having to be "college-educated" to prosper in life were met with judgmental rejection... and those were just questions... the 'indoctrination' aspect was clear even then.
As long as I have been socially aware, I remember hearing over and over (mostly from older generation of people) that they lamented the lack of vocational and trade-oriented education in public venues. I always wondered why it appeared to be a purposeful decision to not support it in public education...
Well... at least in theory, that may be changing... Good luck Alabamans!
RE: Seems like someone was listening.... - ArMaP - 08-15-2024
(08-15-2024, 01:14 PM)Maxmars Wrote: I really can't say what the problem is... other than a monetization gimmick meant to control traffic by the source.
It's a "short", they have a different link.
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(08-15-2024, 02:27 PM)rickymouse Wrote: We have the Union here training future workers to get into construction jobs. It is free and funded by contractors in the area who come in and help to prepare the young to find what kind of work interests them and gives them initial training so the contractors do not have to put so much time for their workers to train these people.
I forgot to say that those courses are free, they are paid by the same state entity that pays the unemployment subsidies, the IEFP.
Quote:In fact the guy who taught one of those things at the college asked me for advice quite often in building so he could teach it to his class. He might have been educated in reading things from a book, but had no practical first hand experience at doing things.
At least he was intelligent enough to understand that he knew less than you and was not proud to ask for help.
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(08-15-2024, 02:53 PM)Maxmars Wrote: I found myself completely unprepared for the 'call for personal diligence' in study, when all my experiences in high school were in large part 'success with little effort.' When the system you are being educated in isn't stellar, it became "easy" to do well.
That problem also happens in Portugal, but not is not as marked as that.
The high school teaching method does not prepare the students to the teaching methods used in Universities. Many years ago we had a special intermediate course to prepare for university those that had finished high school. When I was in my last year in high school there was an extra year that worked as kind of preparation for university, as the teaching method was slightly different from the previous high school years.
I don't know how things are now, this was more than 40 years ago.
RE: Seems like someone was listening.... - Maxmars - 08-15-2024
(08-15-2024, 03:10 PM)ArMaP Wrote: It's a "short", they have a different link.
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That problem also happens in Portugal, but not is not as marked as that.
The high school teaching method does not prepare the students to the teaching methods used in Universities. Many years ago we had a special intermediate course to prepare for university those that had finished high school. When I was in my last year in high school there was an extra year that worked as kind of preparation for university, as the teaching method was slightly different from the previous high school years.
I don't know how things are now, this was more than 40 years ago.
Last thing first, I should have mentioned that those experiences were also generations ago... I am aware that the zeitgeist is different now... and I really am too distantly removed from that world to know. I can only pray that it could have been somehow improved... though I am not certain how to measure that possibility.
My high school did not prepare me - but there is a proviso - I did well enough in high school outside the US education system, that I applied to 'tough' schools in the States... a mistake on my part. It is possible that the system actually did prepare me... for the university experience in that place and... (by now, I am used to admitting this,)... I lack experience to "know" if that was so.
I think it is difficult to expect the high school systems to be responsible for "educational culture" changes outside their control. Perhaps if the post-high school form of life were more exposed (not theatrically as in the current social marketing,) more kids would realize that University was always meant to be "hard focused-work"... but instead many universities 'crafted' educational approaches that accommodated other values outside of pedagogy... it's a quandary for the idealist.
