(09-14-2025, 12:24 AM)RuchardHurt Wrote: Are you giving discredit to the police and other first responders?
Pretty fucking low bro.

Pretty fucking dense if that is your take away from what I said. 


Police can only do so much. If they arrest a guy 30 times and the city keeps letting them go so they can go stab and kill and innocent woman, how is that their fault? 

The police are not the problem, really trying to wrap my head around how you made thagtthe whole point of what I wrote. Especially since im pretty sure you were one on ATS that called me a "bootlicker" for defending police lol

(09-12-2025, 04:26 PM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: When I was a kid, the big bad was the Commies and we learned all the horrible ways life was in Russia.
 

• Show us your papers
  
• No free speech
  
• Press controlled by the government
  
• Sent to the gulags for political dissent
  
• No criticizing the government
  
• Total mass surveillance - no privacy
  
• Military backed authoritarian dictatorship - elite ruling class
  
• Poverty & breadlines
  

And that's just some of the propaganda us Boomer kids in the 50s and 60s heard every day that I can remember.

But damn, why is it not hard for me to see some of the same things happening in this country? I won't even mention parallels to 1930s Germany we're too slowly boiled frogs to notice.

While the National Guard is not military per se like the Army or Marines, nevertheless, seeing armed soldiers in uniform patrolling the streets American cities as a quasi Federal police force chills me to the bone. Using a technicality to get around Posse Comitatus for political grandstanding and as diversion from other issues seems like we sink lower at every turn.

BTW, the original is better (And Marc Cohn was kinda hot!)
[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgRafRp-P-o]

Nobody is getting around posse comitatus.
The Guard will not be, and has not been, used against citizens OR illegals provided that those do not interfere with the sworn and legal duties of Federal Agents.
In DC and in LA, the guard has been used to coordinate with local law enforcement. Eyes on the streets sort of thing. They also do some paperwork and other things that do not require an "official" officer.
Yes, there is a certain deterrent to crime when the Guard is watching your neighborhood.
In those two cities, and in Memphis, the police force is FAR undermanned.
The defund the police movement, based on a lie, gutted lots of law enforcement departments. Also, and I can't speak for LA or DC, but I CAN tell you that Memphis had a requirement that all law enforcement officers had to live in the city limits - but didn't pay them enough to live in a decent neighborhood.
That requirement lasted for almost 20 years, until the state outlawed residency requirements for LOE's.
In other words, Memphis has been running a police force that was as (and still is) for decades down as much as a thousand officers.
Whole areas of Memphis are basically taken over by criminals who know they can get away with what they do.

I've lived just outside the place for almost 20 years now, worked there for 15 years, and I only go there when I absolutely have to, and I DO NOT take any city streets to get where I'm going when I do.

I don't know if what Trump's doing will do any good, but not doing anything, which is the current situation, will certainly only guarantee that it gets worse.

Harte

(09-14-2025, 07:34 AM)Harte Wrote: Nobody is getting around posse comitatus.

10 U.S. Code § 253:

Quote:The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—

(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.

(09-14-2025, 07:58 AM)UltraBudgie Wrote: 10 U.S. Code § 253:

Quote:Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

http://18 U.S. Code § 1385 - Use of Army... Institute

Until and unless the military actually performs the official legal duty of an LEO in a state, there is no conflict with Posse Comitatus.
Constitutionally, The Executive Branch is REQUIRED to enforce federal law. That's why the Executive has the power to use the military to ensure that federal law CAN be enforced.
This is not a new thing. Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson used the guard to enforce federal law in the 50's and 60's.

Their purpose is arranging for federal agents to be able to do their jobs without interference or impedance, which is the justification (and a good one) for the use of the National Guard.
As was seen in LA (as well as in Arkansas and Mississippi,) people attack federal agents when they don't agree with the legal duties of those agents.
ICE (and other federal agents) is coming to Memphis, and the feds are ensuring that they can do what they are required by law to do.

Harte

(09-14-2025, 08:54 AM)Harte Wrote: http://18 U.S. Code § 1385 - Use of Army... Institute

Yes, that's all true. Congress has already authorized the President to use the military to suppress domestic violence that obstructs the execution of the law. Without additional authorization or State government approval necessary. And yes, you are correct there is no authorization there to replace the local law enforcement of the States, unless they are found to be in insurrection.

And all this isn't even addressing the powers granted under the National Emergencies Act.

Much as myself and others might not like this and think it's really really dangerous to the integrity of a free republic, the law seems pretty clear.

(09-14-2025, 09:06 AM)UltraBudgie Wrote: Yes, that's all true. Congress has already authorized the President to use the military to suppress domestic violence that obstructs the execution of the law. Without additional authorization or State government approval necessary. And yes, you are correct there is no authorization there to replace the local law enforcement of the States, unless they are found to be in insurrection.

And all this isn't even addressing the powers granted under the National Emergencies Act.

Much as myself and others might not like this and think it's really really dangerous to the integrity of a free republic, the law seems pretty clear.

In my opinion, the only questionable thing is that the guard was called into DC before there was any physical resistance to the agents doing their job (unlike in LA.) Of course, DC is a federal district, not a state.
However, I have to say that it shouldn't be necessary to wait until agents are attacked before sending such help given the political climate we're in today, what with firms paying people to demonstrate and resist.
I think better safe than sorry, and the Guard can do some good, though I don't know if that good can last.

You know, the members of the National Guard are citizens too. I doubt there's much chance of them getting out of control and repeating what happened at Kent State. Probably not much chance of actual DC residents resisting either, except, of course, the criminals and illegals.

Harte

(09-12-2025, 04:26 PM)AnAlternateOpinion Wrote: BTW, the original is better (And Marc Cohn was kinda hot!)
[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgRafRp-P-o]

Ha I agree the original song is better...was trying to find it.   

Dated a country girl who loved country music, and she made me love it too 

I preferred the original Memphis, the city too, or atleast where it was in the 80s-2000s 

Sending in the Guard is a far cry from the Nazis...

You don't have to emotionally embellish to make the more concerning; it's concerning in a lot of ways.

But for now, let's see what happens....it's not like libertarians and constitutionalists aren't watching like hawks.

This is one of his moves Im not a fan of, but understand the positives behind this... it really does allow the local PD to finish investigations and make major busts for all kinds of real crime they usually don't have time for because they have to sit and watch the GP 24/7 

Im just of the opinion, let's revisit this monthly, if it's going south in any way, it will be obvious and will be reported

(09-14-2025, 04:22 PM)putnam6 Wrote: Sending in the Guard is a far cry from the Nazis...

Yeah but this isn't: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QCgX-djihSQ

So I can see why some people are worried.

(09-14-2025, 04:38 PM)UltraBudgie Wrote: Yeah but this isn't: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QCgX-djihSQ

So I can see why some people are worried.

Budgie, what in the hell does the Patriot Front in Huntington Beach have to do with Memphis and the National Guard FFS



We can watch and observe without being paranoid dumbazzes, as for the Patriot Front, it didn't appear till the riots started and the rise of Antifa...or am I wrong...regardless, pretty sure it's just LARP training 

(09-14-2025, 04:54 PM)putnam6 Wrote: Budgie, what in the hell does the Patriot Front in Huntington Beach have to do with Memphis and the National Guard FFS

We can watch and observe without being paranoid dumbazzes, as for the Patriot Front, it didn't appear till the riots started and the rise of Antifa...or am I wrong...regardless, pretty sure it's just LARP training 

[Video: https://youtu.be/exGvjm1zOTQ?si=Fd5C93c8X4-vYHhp]

Because when people hear the President who is deploying the National Guard apparently aligning himself on the same side of an issue (crush the left) that actual Nazis are aligned with, they draw a connection between the two. Now, I agree it seems a lot like larping or glowing or whatever, but a lot of people don't agree with me. And it always is, until it isn't.

Edit: And to further the point, I think it's important to understand that there is a vast portion of the left that are in algorithmic or self-selected media bubbles, and who are fed videos like that all the time. It forms their impression of the right. Seeing regular Trump supporters right alongside folks like that, sharing their stage. They see them as complicit, and the "Patriot Front" as merely the visible tip of the iceberg of denied right-wing bigotry. That's their perception, and I think it's important to understand, many truthfully aren't aware of the perceptual bias. So they call the right nazis, and when the right throws that back and them, saying no you're the nazis, and they see actually nazis standing right alongside them, unmentioned... well, let's just say it doesn't lead to mutual understanding. It fuels their paranoia that Trump really is a secret nazi, and if he could get away with it, he'd do whatever these "Patriot Front" people want. I think it's important to understand the polarization through that lens, too, if there's any hope of correcting it.