(07-23-2025, 07:22 AM)UltraBudgie Wrote: yes, well true may that all be, this seems somewhat excessive

and kind of a bummer in the afterlife, knowing that the otherwise nice people we have known who have fallen short of this bar are suffering, right?

All who have died are not suffering—they are asleep in the grave, awaiting resurrection. Hell is not a place of eternal torment, but the lake of fire where the wicked, including Satan and his angels (demons), will be cast and permanently destroyed.

God is holy, and His ways are higher than ours. Who are we to presume the authority to judge who deserves punishment? Some child molesters claim their actions are “loving”. Some serial killers believe they serve a higher cause. Most would agree their judgment is just.

But consider this: Have you truly lived without sin? Have you never dishonored your parents, committed adultery in heart or deed, coveted what is not yours, borne false witness, murdered, worshipped idols or other god's, profaned the Sabbath, or misused God’s name?

God’s holiness demands justice—and His mercy offers redemption. Judgment belongs to Him alone.

(07-23-2025, 02:01 PM)IdeomotorPrisoner Wrote: They worked it out so every person goes to their correct associated afterlife.  

It's like a cosmic waiting room, it can be known as purgatory, but really its because the system is global and there's a "take a number" check-in process not considered. 

Like if an evil serial killer is Hindu they still have to wait before getting to see their Beetlejuice-like case worker, Juno. 

"Oh, I see you are Hindu. Well your view says karma and dharma are predetermined, so its already set that youre coming back as a deer in Idaho, USA. Please take this and wait for processing. NEXT!" 

But the Christian status quo serial killer has a different process. 

"So we have you booked for a St. Peter Review, But it's not for 11 years. He is really backed up right now, but time works differently here, so just take a seat and read the same magazine, or watch the same 15 minute "Welcome to The Afterlife" video playing on repeat. 

That way, not everyone gets judged by the 31% that see St. Peter.  Like Islam doesn't do St. Peter. But they have Allah's Day of Judgement, So unfortunately, the dead ones have to wait in that same endless ugly 70s decorated waiting room (like the backrooms) with the Christians, albeit in different sections. 

Fastest afterlife goes to Hindu, because they know what your true self is and it gets tabulated as you go. No  waiting for a secondary judgement.

** Non-believers and unaffiliated are determined by what religion they would be most likely to be part of. Like a Japanese atheist isn't necessarily subject to the Shinto afterlife subset if their family is converted Christian.

You're conflating Roman Catholic doctrine and tradition with Christianity. They are utterly upposed to each other, and the papacy of the Roman Catholic Church is that man of sin, the son of destruction, that exalts himself as God. The Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth at His return.

(07-23-2025, 06:04 AM)TheWay Wrote: There are some things in the scriptures that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction. 

I'd say that worked both ways when the other gospels were not included in the Bible. Agenda-twisting and ignoring others' prophetic and counter-narrative teachings.

(07-23-2025, 02:23 PM)Oldcarpy2 Wrote: I drowned night fishing , heart stopped for a few minutes until my mates rescued me and did CPR.

Came round, but before that it was all just black.

Guess I am unsaved trash.

https://landoverbaptist.org/

No, that doesn't mean anything. The dead "sleep" in the grave (Sheol) awaiting the resurrection. All who believe in Jesus Christ will have eternal life.

For the living know that they will die, but the dead don’t know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for their memory is forgotten. (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work, nor plan, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, where you are going. (Ecclesiastes 9:10)

Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)

He said these things, and after that, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.” The disciples therefore said, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he spoke of taking rest in sleep. So Jesus said to them plainly then, “Lazarus is dead. I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe. Nevertheless, let’s go to him.” (John 11:11-15)

(07-23-2025, 02:32 PM)andy06shake Wrote: I'll entertain the possibility of a God, or creator force.

But not one that demands our worship and obedience.

A truly divine being would not be so fragile.

Nor would it damn finite souls to eternal torment for finite mistakes.

If Jesus did come back to Earth, i dont think he would agree with what the Holy Roman Church of St. Peter has perpetrated in his name, put it that way. 

Your first statement is blasphemy, however, your latter statement is correct. Doctrines and traditions of the Roman Catholic Church are the very antithesis to what is written in the word of God. They consistently do the opposite of what Scripture commands in almost everything they do.

He carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-coloured beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of the sexual immorality of the earth. And on her forehead a name was written, “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered with great amazement. (Revelation 17:3-6 WEBPB)

(07-26-2025, 01:52 AM)quintessentone Wrote: I'd say that worked both ways when the other gospels were not included in the Bible. Agenda-twisting and ignoring others' prophetic and counter-narrative teachings.

The early church purportedly didn’t exclude other "gospels" out of ignorance or agenda—they applied rigorous criteria: apostolic origin, doctrinal consistency, and widespread acceptance within the early church. Many excluded texts were written centuries later, contained theological errors, or promoted gnostic ideas that contradicted Christ’s teachings. Truth isn’t determined by volume of voices, but by faithfulness to God’s revelation.

I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel, but there isn’t another gospel. Only there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any gospel other than that which you received, let him be cursed. For am I now seeking the favour of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I wouldn’t be a servant of Christ. (Galatians 1:6-10)

(07-26-2025, 02:06 AM)TheWay Wrote: The early church purportedly didn’t exclude other "gospels" out of ignorance or agenda—they applied rigorous criteria: apostolic origin, doctrinal consistency, and widespread acceptance within the early church. Many excluded texts were written centuries later, contained theological errors, or promoted gnostic ideas that contradicted Christ’s teachings. Truth isn’t determined by volume of voices, but by faithfulness to God’s revelation.

I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different gospel, but there isn’t another gospel. Only there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any gospel other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any gospel other than that which you received, let him be cursed. For am I now seeking the favour of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I wouldn’t be a servant of Christ. (Galatians 1:6-10)

I marvel at your dismissal of the truth.

(07-26-2025, 01:58 AM)TheWay Wrote: They consistently do the opposite of what Scripture commands in almost everything they do.

The problem is "command".
 
You catch more flies with honey rather than with vinegar.

Command someone to do something, and they take issue.

Ask them, and they may very well acquiesce to your request.

Same with telling people they can't have something, it's only apt to make them want it more.

You would imagine God would understand the human condition more if indeed he created us.
 
None of which, I should add, changes what that mob has gotten up to and perpetrated throughout the greater part of recorded history.

(07-26-2025, 06:15 AM)andy06shake Wrote: The problem is "command".
 
You catch more flies with honey rather than with vinegar.

Command someone to do something, and they take issue.

Ask them, and they may very well acquiesce to your request.

Same with telling people they can't have something, it's only apt to make them want it more.

You would imagine God would understand the human condition more if indeed he created us.
 
None of which, I should add, changes what that mob has gotten up to and perpetrated throughout the greater part of recorded history.

Isn't it odd that those who claim to have heard Jesus' teaching secondhand apply commandments, narratives, and/or their own interpretations, opinions and biases from that time, while Jesus used parables to teach plainly for some and use parables for others, and teach/explain/advise not command? 

Jesus did state that his disciples did not understand what he was trying to teach.

"Through parables, Jesus effectively communicated his teachings, inviting listeners to explore deeper meanings while also challenging them to reflect on their own understanding and openness to spiritual truths. This method not only engaged his audience but also served to separate those genuinely seeking understanding from those who were indifferent or hostile to his message."

Mark 4:

"[sup]24 [/sup]“Consider carefully what you hear,” he continued. “With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more.

"[sup]33 [/sup]With many similar parables Jesus spoke the word to them, as much as they could understand. [sup]34 [/sup]He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything."

Mark 4 NIV - The Parable of the Sower - Again Jesus - Bible Gateway

"Luke 11:35-40
New International Version[sup]35 [/sup]See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness. [sup]36 [/sup]Therefore, if your whole body is full of light, and no part of it dark, it will be just as full of light as when a lamp shines its light on you.”"

Luke 11:35-40 NIV - See to it, then, that the light within - Bible Gateway

Irenaeus of Lyons

(07-26-2025, 08:04 AM)quintessentone Wrote: Isn't it odd that those who claim to have heard Jesus' teaching secondhand apply commandments, narratives, and/or their opinions and biases from that time, while Jesus used parables to teach plainly for some and use parables for others, and teach/explain not command? 

Jesus did state that his disciples did not understand what he was trying to teach.

"Through parables, Jesus effectively communicated his teachings, inviting listeners to explore deeper meanings while also challenging them to reflect on their own understanding and openness to spiritual truths. This method not only engaged his audience but also served to separate those genuinely seeking understanding from those who were indifferent or hostile to his message."

Mark 4:

"[sup]24 [/sup]“Consider carefully what you hear,” he continued. “With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more.

"[sup]33 [/sup]With many similar parables Jesus spoke the word to them, as much as they could understand. [sup]34 [/sup]He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything."

Mark 4 NIV - The Parable of the Sower - Again Jesus - Bible Gateway

Well, considering he's not been around for the past 2000 odd years, i imagine we all learn about his teachings secondhand.  

Quite a few meaningful parables to be found in the Bible.

It's the other ""stuff"" that's problematic.  

Like the sanctioned slavery, genocide, child sacrifice, misogyny in spades, and homophobia, for instance.

Not to mention the eternal damnation and divine favoritism.