Quote:Utanapishtim spoke to Gilgamesh, saying:
"Gilgamesh, you came here exhausted and worn out.
What can I give you so you can return to your land?
I will disclose to you a thing that is hidden, Gilgamesh,
a... I will tell you.
There is a plant... like a boxthorn,
whose thorns will prick your hand like a rose.
If your hands reach that plant you will become a young
man again."
Hearing this, Gilgamesh opened a conduit(!) (to the Apsu)
and attached heavy stones to his feet.
They dragged him down, to the Apsu they pulled him.
He took the plant, though it pricked his hand,
and cut the heavy stones from his feet,
letting the waves(?) throw him onto its shores.
Gilgamesh spoke to Urshanabi, the ferryman, saying:
"Urshanabi, this plant is a plant against decay(!)
by which a man can attain his survival(!).
I will bring it to Uruk-Haven,
and have an old man eat the plant to test it.
The plant's name is 'The Old Man Becomes a Young Man.'"
Then I will eat it and return to the condition of my youth."
At twenty leagues they broke for some food,
at thirty leagues they stopped for the night.
Seeing a spring and how cool its waters were,
Gilgamesh went down and was bathing in the water.
A snake smelled the fragrance of the plant,
silently came up and carried off the plant.
While going back it sloughed off its casing.'
At that point Gilgamesh sat down, weeping,
his tears streaming over the side of his nose.
"Counsel me, O ferryman Urshanabi!
For whom have my arms labored, Urshanabi!
For whom has my heart's blood roiled!
I have not secured any good deed for myself,
but done a good deed for the 'lion of the ground'!"
Now the high waters are coursing twenty leagues distant,'
as I was opening the conduit(?) I turned my equipment over
into it (!).
What can I find (to serve) as a marker(?) for me!


- Epic of Gilgamesh, Tablet XI

If only Gilgamesh had waited!
He would have seen the snake return,
with a companion it returned.
For who would desire eternal living alone?

Into the pool did the two snakes enter.
The pool also was an entrance to the Apsu.

I found that bottomless pool one day
and plunged in.
Down and down did I swim,
until there was no down.
For in the Apsu direction has no reference.

The water so clear as to seem as air!
The water so pure as to require no holding of breath!
With no measure of depth,
and no pressure from depth,
weightless.
To swim the Apsu is to fly in Apsu.

Before me the snakes.
One seeming quite terrible
the other quite calm.

Through shedding of old skin
and growing in new,
quite large they have become through the millennia,
very, very large.

I looked but saw no plant like a boxthorn.
As if awakening
I was again at the edge
looking down into the bottomless pool.

Had I indeed been in Apsu?
Was it imagination?
Should I dive in a second time?
If indeed it was a second time?

Then I did awaken,
on a bed,
under a ceiling.

Upon standing I recognized the apartment
in which I dwelled.

Upon noticing the clock,
I saw that it was time.
So I showered, dressed,
and went to work.

And one of the morals of that story is: "No risk no reward."

"I will bring it to Uruk-Haven,
and have an old man eat the plant to test it.
The plant's name is 'The Old Man Becomes a Young Man.'"
Then I will eat it and return to the condition of my youth.""

----

"For who would desire eternal living alone?"

If Gilgamesh and his friend were brave enough to eat the plant then the two could share living eternally together.

Don't some days at work feel like an eternity? LOL

(12-12-2025, 11:59 AM)quintessentone Wrote: And one of the morals of that story is: "No risk no reward."

----

"For who would desire eternal living alone?"

If Gilgamesh and his friend were brave enough to eat the plant then the two could share living eternally together.

This piece of mine is partially a response to @midicon The Alchemist.

The truth of the matter is that I had a dream back in the 90s.
According to "universal dream archetypes" associated with Jung, the extreme crystal clarity of the water had some meaning, like "of great significance".

There were two big snakes, so I concocted an explanation for that.

But really, I just wanted to emphasize the feeling of swimming in the Apsu.

And the ferryman was not Gilgamesh's friend. His friend Enkidu had died already.

------
My intended moral would seem more like "Eternal youth is a dream".

(12-12-2025, 12:48 PM)Bootless Wrote: This piece of mine is partially a response to @midicon The Alchemist.

The truth of the matter is that I had a dream back in the 90s.
According to "universal dream archetypes" associated with Jung, the extreme crystal clarity of the water had some meaning, like "of great significance".

There were two big snakes, so I concocted an explanation for that.

But really, I just wanted to emphasize the feeling of swimming in the Apsu.

And the ferryman was not Gilgamesh's friend. His friend Enkidu had died already.

------
My intended moral would seem more like "Eternal youth is a dream".

That was brilliant! Very dreamy!

(12-12-2025, 12:48 PM)Bootless Wrote: This piece of mine is partially a response to @midicon The Alchemist.

The truth of the matter is that I had a dream back in the 90s.
According to "universal dream archetypes" associated with Jung, the extreme crystal clarity of the water had some meaning, like "of great significance".

There were two big snakes, so I concocted an explanation for that.

But really, I just wanted to emphasize the feeling of swimming in the Apsu.

And the ferryman was not Gilgamesh's friend. His friend Enkidu had died already.

------
My intended moral would seem more like "Eternal youth is a dream".

I think we can conjure up many morals from that Gilgamesh story. Another: "You are only as young as you feel."

Why not invite the ferryman to be a new friend, eat of the plant, and share eternity together? 

"Strangers can become best friends just like best friends can become strangers."

While the moral of your story is yours to realize alone.

(12-12-2025, 02:03 PM)quintessentone Wrote:  

Thank you.

(12-12-2025, 06:52 PM)Bootless Wrote: Thank you.

As serendipity would have it, this poem appeared to me which made me think of both poems, but perhaps it was meant just for me.

(12-14-2025, 12:50 PM)quintessentone Wrote:  but perhaps it was meant just for me.

Well, I don't think it's for me.
For one, it's written in the voice of the creator,
making Rumi a prophet.

That's why Rumi stuck with the Islamic law that Mohamed was the last and best prophet, and anything from himself was mere commentary. That's how one avoids death for blasphemy.

But look how the creator is portrayed: He makes the rules. He expects the slave to return to its master. That's sort of an unhealthy relationship.

There is a term that people use, "Simp", it's like when one person has a crush on another and goes out of their way to give signs and signals, usually sort of ignored or only slightly acknowledged.

There's this song that I occasionally listen to by R.E.M. The lyricist had this to say about it.

Quote:Michael Stipe explained:

Quote:When you have a crush on somebody, and you think that they understand that but you’re not sure, and you’re dropping all kinds of hints, and you think that they’re responding to these hints but you’re not sure; that’s what this song is about: thinking that you’ve gone too far, you’ve dropped a hint that is just the size of Idaho, and they responded in a way that maybe confused you, or they haven’t responded at all or they responded in a way that seemed like ‘well, maybe I’m gonna- maybe I’m- maybe something’s gonna happen here!’ and I think I’ve probably said this seven thousand times, but the phrase ‘losing my religion’ is a southern phrase which means that something has pushed you so far that you would lose your faith over it. Something has pushed you to the nothing degree, and that’s what this is about. Now, some people still think that it’s a song about religion; it’s not. It’s just a song about having a crush.

"Every whisper
Of every waking hour
I'm choosin' my confessions
Tryin' to keep an eye on you
Like a hurt, lost, and blinded fool, fool
Oh no, I've said too much
I set it up"

I used to think of this as a human seeking after God
but 
what if the hypothetical creator is the simp, seeking validation?

Oh No! I've said too much!

blasphemy for sure.

(12-15-2025, 02:25 AM)Bootless Wrote: Well, I don't think it's for me.
For one, it's written in the voice of the creator,
making Rumi a prophet.

That's why Rumi stuck with the Islamic law that Mohamed was the last and best prophet, and anything from himself was mere commentary. That's how one avoids death for blasphemy.

But look how the creator is portrayed: He makes the rules. He expects the slave to return to its master. That's sort of an unhealthy relationship.

There is a term that people use, "Simp", it's like when one person has a crush on another and goes out of their way to give signs and signals, usually sort of ignored or only slightly acknowledged.

There's this song that I occasionally listen to by R.E.M. The lyricist had this to say about it.

[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwtdhWltSIg]

"Every whisper
Of every waking hour
I'm choosin' my confessions
Tryin' to keep an eye on you
Like a hurt, lost, and blinded fool, fool
Oh no, I've said too much
I set it up"

I used to think of this as a human seeking after God
but 
what if the hypothetical creator is the simp, seeking validation?

Oh No! I've said too much!

blasphemy for sure.

...Like a hurt, lost, and blinded fool, fool ?

We are all just seeking those realities and/or individual perceived truths/realization as we go along and what will be our last ultimate goal?

I sometimes think of George Harrison's song "My Sweet Lord", which keeps its feelings/wants:

George Harrison – My Sweet Lord Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

"In numerous interviews, Harrison talked about how his Catholic upbringing put a bad taste in his mouth when it came to a ‘magic man in the sky.’
 However, the teachings of Hinduism taught him things like that God must be experienced in order to be worshiped:
 
“If you do not experience God, or perceive the soul, then there is no point in believing.
It is better to be an outspoken atheist than a hypocrite."
 
George simply wants to ‘see’ the God he has felt, so that he can complete his understanding."

-------

I suppose our desire for proof of a creator/God may be because one feels a higher power exists or may exist out there. We might end up showing ourselves what blinded fools we've been if the divine has been within us all along but we chose instead to be lost, hurt, blinded fools when we didn't have to be. 

Is it blasphemy when one seeks to find? I don't think so.

"Ask and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."

I suppose as I age and I ponder my mortality the many different forms of messages which catch my attention only show that I am seeking and that I am finding...I have yet to knock on heaven's door.

(12-12-2025, 02:03 PM)quintessentone Wrote: I think we can conjure up many morals from that Gilgamesh story. Another: "You are only as young as you feel."

Why not invite the ferryman to be a new friend, eat of the plant, and share eternity together? 

"Strangers can become best friends just like best friends can become strangers."

While the moral of your story is yours to realize alone.

The truth is, you are the ferry man and the passenger.

You are where you are going and that which you meet.

We are all eternal and yet, there is no 'we' in eternity.


I liked your post!