Trump Announces Alaska Summit with Putin

[FlyersFan]

America became the world police, sadly giving up that role now is just opening a world wide can of worms.

Meh.   I say it's Europes backyard and their headache, let them sort it out.

[Kurokage]

Meh.   I say it's Europes backyard and their headache, let them sort it out.

I'd agree if America hadn't had a hand in it for the last 80 years.
Europe was happy to sit back during that time to their detriment. Now we're on a global stage, it makes it even harder to draw a line under it and say enough is enough. America is partly to blame and not just Europe. If 'the West' falls apart now, it leaves the stage open for say a dominant China to try it's luck or for Russia to recoup and later invade more of the old USSR. Things could escalate very quickly.

[FlyersFan]

I'd agree if America hadn't had a hand in it for the last 80 years.

Screw that. 
Time for Europe to step up to the plate and swing.
Let Europe take care of Europe.
Except for selling arms/munitions to Ukraine/Europe, we should STAY OUT OF IT.

[andy06shake]

I don't think it matters who went first.
We all know the only way this can end.
Russia gets to keep the land it stole.
They will sign a fake peace treaty.
Then they'll find an excuse to break it in a few years and go for more land.
Either from Ukraine or elsewhere.

Of course it matters, again, going first lets you set the tone and tune of the meeting and debate.

And I don't think Ukraine sees it that way.
 
The outcome is hardly inevitable.

History shows aggressors don't always keep occupied land.

Japan lost its empire, Iraq was forced out of Kuwait, and Russia itself lost land after the Cold War.

When you pander to tyrants, you validate their power and embolden further abuse.

Who's next after Ukraine if Putin is allowed to get away with literal bloody murder? 

One of the Baltic states, Poland.................Europe?

[FlyersFan]

Who's next after Ukraine if Putin is allowed to get away with literal bloody murder? 

That's what I'm saying ... it doesn't matter if he goes first or last ... the outcome is probably already determined.  He's won.  He gets to keep what he stole.  He'll sign a treaty and then in a few years break it and go for more.  He's not going to stop.  Him going first or last isn't going to change that.

Him going first or last doesn't change that he has won.   
Ceasefire or not doesn't change the fact that he's won. 
The war continuing for years and years more won't change the fact that he's won.

Nothing short of WWIII will change that he has won.

[Kurokage]

Screw that. 
Time for Europe to step up to the plate and swing.
Let Europe take care of Europe.
Except for selling arms/munitions to Ukraine/Europe, we should STAY OUT OF IT.

Like I said, American had control of a large part of the European 'pie' for 80 years in it's 'fight' against communism. I honestly think it can't just withdraw 'just like that', but I also think Europe is starting to 'grow a pair'.

Trump got himself into this mess by wanting to be Putins buddy and possibly distract the media from problems at home (rising inflation, Epstein and so fourth)

[Unknownparadox]

Russia is throwing everything it has left at Ukraine since Trump came back into power, and all Putin has to do is phone his friend Donald and tell him a pile of sh*t and old Don swallows it (so no consequences). It took Melania to draw Donald a few diagrams recently showing that after talking with Donald, Putin always launches a fresh attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yl6eegv63o

That doesn't change anything about what I said. In addition, it actually support the Obama route, of sanctions saved lives. Since.

Russia-Ukraine War, war between Russia and Ukraine that began in February 2014 with the covert invasion of the Ukrainian autonomous republic of Crimea by disguised Russian troops. The conflict expanded in April 2014 when Russians and local proxy forces seized territory in Ukraine’s Donbas region; over the next seven years, more than 14,000 people would be killed in fighting in eastern Ukraine.
https://www.britannica.com/event/2022-Ru...of-Ukraine

A lot more has died since America started funneling 100 billion or so dollars worth of some of the most advanced weapons in the world there. I have heard Russia is on the verge of defeat for 2 years now.

I have even seen a article where it claimed Russia was down to using donkeys to haul military equipment. Never mind using some of the 59 million cars and trucks it has. Or all the construction or mining equipment.

[andy06shake]

That's what I'm saying ... it doesn't matter if he goes first or last ... the outcome is probably already determined.  He's won.  He gets to keep what he stole.  He'll sign a treaty and then in a few years break it and go for more.  He's not going to stop.  Him going first or last isn't going to change that.

Him going first or last doesn't change that he has won.   
Ceasefire or not doesn't change the fact that he's won. 
The war continuing for years and years more won't change the fact that he's won.

Nothing short of WWIII will change that he has won.

Horrible prospect. 

But clearly, militarily, Russia is weaker than NATO combined.

Without the use of nuclear weapons, NATO would decimate the Russian antiquated forces.

If we stand united and with Ukraine, Russia has won very little and will collapse in on itself without additional support.

[Kurokage]

A lot more has died since America started funneling 100 billion or so dollars worth of some of the most advanced weapons in the world there. I have heard Russia is on the verge of defeat for 2 years now.

 Russia has lost nearly a whole generation of males, needing approx' 12000 North Korean soldiers  and Iranian drones to help fight. Putin boasted it would be over in a week, it's took three and half years to move the front line a few kilometres, they may win but at what cost to Russia?

[Unknownparadox]

 Russia has lost nearly a whole generation of males, needing approx' 12000 North Korean soldiers  and Iranian drones to help fight. Putin boasted it would be over in a week, it's took three and half years to move the front line a few kilometres, they may win but at what cost to Russia?

That's exactly what I said. The Obama route of sanctions only saved lives. I am sure around half of those Russians, probably more, don't want the war.

I can tell you right now. Something doesn't add up. With all the weapons Ukraine has been given by America and Europe, they should have already ejected Russia. Since Russia is supposed to be a shadow of the former soviet union. Of course Ukraine has diverted some of that to invading Russia instead of ejecting them.