Forced to accept fraud as ok because feelings -- Explain

[Halfswede]

Here is something I just don't understand.  Maybe someone can explain it to me.


Let's say you are a single mom and want to make a good living and decide being a lawyer is a good way to go. Your life is currently a struggle and making ends meet and putting food on your kid's table is hard. 

Rather than going to law school though, because you don't really have time between raising children etc.,  you decide to falsify certificates and open up a practice in small town whatever U.S.A where they just might not check whether you graduated Yale.

You make a good go of it and learn the law and make a good living, marry a local man, and have a very successful career--maybe too successful.  One day you are awarded some kind of civic nonsense award and a regional reporter wants to get some background for a story. He finds out you never attended law school. etc.  You are barred from every practicing law.

You chose this route, knew this day might come, but instead of taking responsibility, you protest the punishment.  "It's not fair", you say. "I've already been making this living for 10 years. I have made a life and family because of it and all of that will be ruined. I should be able to continue practicing law." 

Can anyone explain logically why they think this is ok, and even protest over the poor person's predicament... Why we should just ignore the fraud when there is a perfectly legal path to lawyerhood without fraud and lies?

[IDELB2006]

Here is something I just don't understand.  Maybe someone can explain it to me.


Let's say you are a single mom and want to make a good living and decide being a lawyer is a good way to go. Your life is currently a struggle and making ends meet and putting food on your kid's table is hard. 

Rather than going to law school though, because you don't really have time between raising children etc.,  you decide to falsify certificates and open up a practice in small town whatever U.S.A where they just might not check whether you graduated Yale.

You make a good go of it and learn the law and make a good living, marry a local man, and have a very successful career--maybe too successful.  One day you are awarded some kind of civic nonsense award and a regional reporter wants to get some background for a story. He finds out you never attended law school. etc.  You are barred from every practicing law.

You chose this route, knew this day might come, but instead of taking responsibility, you protest the punishment.  "It's not fair", you say. "I've already been making this living for 10 years. I have made a life and family because of it and all of that will be ruined. I should be able to continue practicing law." 

Can anyone explain logically why they think this is ok, and even protest over the poor person's predicament... Why we should just ignore the fraud when there is a perfectly legal path to lawyerhood without fraud and lies?

That sounds like an interesting story.

Any links?

[Halfswede]

That sounds like an interesting story.

Any links?

I was assuming the analogy was pretty transparent.  Don't make me spoil it for the simple.

[Mantiss2021]

Because Certain professions provide services which, by their nature can have a profound, and lasting, impact on the lives of the people these professions serve, they have all, in one way or another, adopted an internal "code of behavior" to which members are expected to adhere.

This hypothetical person failed to adhere to the most basic tenets of her  chosen profession; ethical representation, specifically, of herself as a "qualified" practioner of the law.

Thus, she forfeits any consideration, now,  or in the future, that might allow her to mislead others into the belief that she is worthy of their trust.

[IDELB2006]

I was assuming the analogy was pretty transparent.  Don't make me spoil it for the simple.

So just expressing your outrage for a make believe scenario?

[Halfswede]

So just expressing your outrage for a make believe scenario?

Again, I thought it was transparent, but I will go ahead and be clear.  This is the exact argument people are making for for being here illegally.  

"It's not fair.  I've made this my home for 10+ years. I am integrated in society and have lots of friends and family here"

How is it totally unacceptable in the lawyer case, but not in the other?  

It's like someone at a Taylor Swift concert who snuck in with a fake ticket getting caught midway through and saying it's not fair, I've made a bunch of friends and already watched half the show anyway. 

Why is it such a simple concept when fraud is committed in one case, but the propaganda machine has made people believe it is something different?  There is a perfectly legal way to have the benefits of citizenship without fraud and cheating.  The ones that did it the right way don't get the money and housing etc. How does this get rationalized in some people's minds?  Is the propaganda that good?

[IDELB2006]

I should have guessed from the forum this is in.

Even Trump has admitted recently that he needs ICE to change tactics, and leave the farming, and food prep industries alone. Turns out the invasion of illegals is not bad on all fronts.

Maybe when our politicians begin to talk seriously about expanding work visas for some industries it will look more like a grownup conversation.

[Shoshanna]

Here is something I just don't understand.  Maybe someone can explain it to me.


Let's say you are a single mom and want to make a good living and decide being a lawyer is a good way to go. Your life is currently a struggle and making ends meet and putting food on your kid's table is hard. 

Rather than going to law school though, because you don't really have time between raising children etc.,  you decide to falsify certificates and open up a practice in small town whatever U.S.A where they just might not check whether you graduated Yale.

You make a good go of it and learn the law and make a good living, marry a local man, and have a very successful career--maybe too successful.  One day you are awarded some kind of civic nonsense award and a regional reporter wants to get some background for a story. He finds out you never attended law school. etc.  You are barred from every practicing law.

You chose this route, knew this day might come, but instead of taking responsibility, you protest the punishment.  "It's not fair", you say. "I've already been making this living for 10 years. I have made a life and family because of it and all of that will be ruined. I should be able to continue practicing law." 

Can anyone explain logically why they think this is ok, and even protest over the poor person's predicament... Why we should just ignore the fraud when there is a perfectly legal path to lawyerhood without fraud and lies?

Well this is the difference between doing what's right when nobody's looking or doing what you can get away with. My thoughts are, if what you are doing affects literally no one but yourself, do whatever you think you can get away with but something like this [and most things that are wrong actually] affect many many people. 

In your example if this person was a prosecutor, oh boy. We would have the cost of retrials since if the prosecutor wasn't actually a lawyer it would probably void all their convictions, investigations, very very bad press etc.

In the case of illegal immigration it costs American taxpayers billions [maybe trillions] of dollars a year because once they have a child, that child is entitled to all the benefits of being an American citizen.

I forgot to add for all the people who are gonna come in here and say "they pay taxes!" Yes. They can pay taxes. They can fabricate documents like SS that make them able to "legally" work somewhere. Or they can do the ITIN thing and pay taxes but I will just take a wild guess that doesn't happen very frequently because why would someone who is afraid of being caught in the country illegally or without documents actually get an ITIN and pay taxes to a country that may deport them. Does any of that make it right? That our tax dollars are paying for SNAP/WIC, TANF, Daycare, section 8 for these anchor babies to thrive? I mean I don't want to see any kids be in poverty or hungry or homeless but we have to draw the line somewhere.

[SurferSoul]

The law is an ass. 

legalese, small print, convoluted clause’s, big bank balances, bought and paid for. That is the law.