Is this an irregularity? Response to Payne Stewart jet off course vs 9/11 response

[Shoshanna]

The crash that killed golfer Payne Stewart, as well as 5 other people on board is well known.

The crash occurred on October 25th 1999 and there is something I have been wondering for quite awhile and wanted to get other input into it.

What happened is the plane lost pressurization and rendered pilots unconscious so the plane flew until it supposedly ran out of fuel and crashed. I'm not making this post to question how it "ran out of fuel" when based on it's final refueling it should have had enough fuel to fly for another hour at least.

I'm asking how, 27 minutes after ATC lost contact with the plane, a test pilot from Eglin who happened to already be in the air nearby was told to intercept this plane. When he did he radioed the plane and got no response, noting that the windscreen appeared to be icing over and there was no visible flight control movements. He peeled off from the plane and landed in Illinois.

Then nineteen minutes later, two pilots from the Oklahoma ANG were told to intercept the flight. They reported the same findings as the first interception and flew away to refuel.

Thirty seven minutes later, both North Dakota ANG and the jet from Oklahoma ANG intercept the plane and report the same findings as earlier.

At this point the Canadian Prime minister at the time, Jean Chretien authorizes a shoot down if the plane enters Canadian air space without making contact. The US pentagon denies the US ever considered shooting down the plane.

About 33 minutes after the final intercept, the plane ran out of fuel and crashed.

How was this plane intercepted 3 times pretty quickly once it went off course and stopped responding, yet on 9/11 a commercial plane let's just use flight 11 as an example. Flight 11 left the runway at 7:59am. It impacted the North Tower at 8:46am. Why was this plane not intercepted. Why were none of the planes on 9/11 intercepted at any point. ATC heard Atta's bungled hijacking announcement at 8:23am. Why was nothing done at that point?!

Listening to Betty Ong's call makes my blood boil. None of those people on the ground had to die. None of them.

This does not make any sense to me AT ALL.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._mil...11_attacks

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijacker...11_attacks

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American..._Flight_11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South...rjet_crash

Anybody have any ideas why a private jet was intercepted 3 separate times when deemed non responsive and off course yet no commercial planes on 9/11 were intercepted at all?

[Zaphod58]

There's a mistake in the timeline. It wasn't 27 minutes for the first interception. There was a timezone change as they crossed the border out of Florida. The aircraft out of Eglin refueled over the Gulf before being sent after the aircraft. They caught up to it at the Alabama border. It's longer than 27 minutes flying time, without the refueling being added in. 

There was a huge difference between Payne Stewart's plane and the 9/11 planes. His plane had its transponder on, and was being tracked on radar the entire flight. On 9/11 transponders were turned off, or transponder codes were changed which made it, at best, extremely difficult to track the aircraft after they were hijacked.

[Shoshanna]

There's a mistake in the timeline. It wasn't 27 minutes for the first interception. There was a timezone change as they crossed the border out of Florida. The aircraft out of Eglin refueled over the Gulf before being sent after the aircraft. They caught up to it at the Alabama border. It's longer than 27 minutes flying time, without the refueling being added in. 

There was a huge difference between Payne Stewart's plane and the 9/11 planes. His plane had its transponder on, and was being tracked on radar the entire flight. On 9/11 transponders were turned off, or transponder codes were changed which made it, at best, extremely difficult to track the aircraft after they were hijacked.

Ooh okay that makes sense! I didn't account for the time zones. I was watching this documentary called 9/11 the new pearl harbor and it made it seem like despite the transponder being off ATC somehow knew where the plane was [flight 11 specifically]. 

Thanks for answering I am not a "truther" I think what those terrorists did when they attacked us was one of the worst things to happen in American history but I'm always trying to learn more. Or learn why people think it was some kind of hoax.

Oh AND I just realized you debunked my other conspiracy theory about the flight too! With the amount of fuel. I think not taking into account the time zones made it seem like it should have flown further.

This is why I ask the questions!

[BeyondKnowledge]

I find the first sentence of this thread totally misleading. No one died in that crash. They were already dead for hours before that aircraft ran out of fuel.

Along with what has been mentioned in the above reply, 9/11 involved several unknowns that made it muh more confusing. The time to realize what was going on is a large factor in not being a comparison at all.

A single aircraft with a functional transponder is easy to track compared to several aircraft that had gone almost totaly radio silent for no apparent reason. One 9/11 aircraft did make a transmission thinking they were on the intercom, but all transponders were turned off.

Also the timelines from beginning to end of the 9/11 events is much shorter then the Payne Stewart flight.

A loose hose clamp can be deadly.

[Shoshanna]

I find the first sentence of this thread totally misleading. No one died in that crash. They were already dead for hours before that aircraft ran out of fuel.

Along with what has been mentioned in the above reply, 9/11 involved several unknowns that made it muh more confusing. The time to realize what was going on is a large factor in not being a comparison at all.

A single aircraft with a functional transponder is easy to track compared to several aircraft that had gone almost totaly radio silent for no apparent reason. One 9/11 aircraft did make a transmission thinking they were on the intercom, but all transponders were turned off.

Also the timelines from beginning to end of the 9/11 events is much shorter then the Payne Stewart flight.

A loose hose clamp can be deadly.

Sorry I wasn't trying to be misleading, I was just trying to hurry and type it up to post before I had to go to work. I could have worded it better. I am aware they were dead up there just flying around. The crash didn't kill them. Like I said in my reply to Zaphod I was watching this documentary 9/11 the new pearl harbor and it made it seem like despite the transponder being off somehow ATC knew where the plane was [flight 11] and had audio of supposedly an air traffic controller saying "okay I see him" or something similar regarding flight 11, despite the transponder being off. 

I just like learning things. It is mind bottling to me that people think this thing was a hoax so i just try and ask questions, maybe dumb ones, but i want to learn!

[Nerb]

Add in the fact that on 9/11 there just happened to be a load of military excercises going on which added to the confusion as to the reality of the situation which prolonged responses to the aircraft.

[Zaphod58]

Ooh okay that makes sense! I didn't account for the time zones. I was watching this documentary called 9/11 the new pearl harbor and it made it seem like despite the transponder being off ATC somehow knew where the plane was [flight 11 specifically]. 

Thanks for answering I am not a "truther" I think what those terrorists did when they attacked us was one of the worst things to happen in American history but I'm always trying to learn more. Or learn why people think it was some kind of hoax.

Oh AND I just realized you debunked my other conspiracy theory about the flight too! With the amount of fuel. I think not taking into account the time zones made it seem like it should have flown further.

This is why I ask the questions!

The biggest problem with intercepting the flights was the fact we had almost nothing to intercept them with. After the fall of the Soviet Union the armed alert force was gutted, and we had something like seven bases with armed aircraft for the entire continental United States. That includes three along the southern border region. Otis AFB was the first to launch, and got over New York just as the second plane hit. Even if they had intercepted them they couldn’t have stopped them. They weren’t going to shoot them down until we knew for sure what they were going to do. It was ninety minutes before other fighters were armed with gun rounds, and closer to two hours before a full load out was hanging.

[Zaphod58]

Add in the fact that on 9/11 there just happened to be a load of military excercises going on which added to the confusion as to the reality of the situation which prolonged responses to the aircraft.

Largely irrelevant though. Even if the few armed fighters had intercepted them they would have simply flown along beside them watching them. By the time they would have realized what they were about to do they couldn’t have shot them down without creating a worse disaster.

[Nerb]

By the time they would have realized what they were about to do they couldn’t have shot them down without creating a worse disaster.

Can you please explain how they would have created a worse disaster than what evidently happened in New York?

I am honestly puzzled at your statement.

[Zaphod58]

Can you please explain how they would have created a worse disaster than what evidently happened in New York?

I am honestly puzzled at your statement.

If they intercepted either 175 or 11, by the time anyone figured out what they were planning to do would be when they were over the city. If they do anything there, the only plane wreckage goes is into the city. Lots more casualties.


 Flight 77 wasn’t really tracked until it got close to the Pentagon. In that case you would have them taking the shot in extremely busy airspace, again with not many good places for debris to land. 

Flight 93 was the only one they could have reasonably shot down with very little risk to people on the ground.