Gazan Civilians Involved in Every Stage of Hamas Hostage Scheme Released Israelis Say

[FlyersFan]

A topic that people strongly take sides over - Israel vs Hamas/Palestinians.  Controversial for discussion.

The freed hostages report how 'civilian Palestinians' kidnapped Israelies and held them hostage, and how Palestinian children and 'civilian wives' mistreated the hostages etc etc.  Some examples are given in the article.  You can not separate Hamas from the Palestinians.  They are one in the same.  Hamas is a way of life for the 'Palestinians'.

Some will say it's understandable on the part of the 'Palestinians'.  Some will say that this proves there are no innocent 'Palestinians' and that peace isn't possible.  

Gazan "Civilians" Involved in Every Stage of Hamas Hostage Scheme Released Israelis Reveal

Gazan 'Civilians' Involved in Every Stage of Hamas Hostage Scheme, Freed Israelis Say.

In primetime Hebrew TV interviews, the released hostages have confirmed that ordinary Gazans were deeply complicit in every stage of the hostage scheme. Unarmed teens helped to abduct Jews from their homes on Oct. 7, while Gazan women and children held some of the Israelis captive. In other cases, Gazan doctors collaborated with Hamas terrorists to covertly treat kidnapped Israelis and imprison them in hospitals. When the Israelis encountered Gazans on the streets, the results were often terrifying.

"The main issue is that the organization is very much melted into the social structure of Gaza," Michael Milshtein, a former senior Israeli military intelligence officer and a leading expert on Hamas, told the Washington Free Beacon. "There is no way you can really know who is Hamas. Someone might have a grocery store where he sells tomatoes and water, but he might also have storehouse of weapons and give religious lessons there.  And his wife and kids might be keeping an Israeli hostage at home.  "Hamas is not only a political matter in Gaza. It's a way of life," 

"I experienced hell. Everyone there are terrorists," Schem said in a separate interview on Israel's Channel 13. "There are no innocent civilians, not one."

[xpert11]

Those members of Hamas who participated in the kidnappings are probably akin to the Viet Cong. They are Hamas' political arm and operational units. But unlike people living in small South Vietnamese villages, Hamas blends into Gaza's urban environments.


In the broader picture, who and what replaces Hamas in Gaza?
Like the U.S. in Afghanistan and Iraq, Israel risks strategic defeat, for there is no viable replacement government after regime change occurs. The problem for Israel is that leaving Hamas in power isn't a feasible option, unlike the U.S. jumping the shark with the Iraq War.

Also, no amount of aid programs could construct anything out of South Vietnam and Afghanistan. The same will likely apply to Post-Hamas Gaza.

What does the removal of Hamas from power for the two-state solution? Yet that policy was long dead by any realistic assessments; international policymakers and governments must face that reality.

[Kenzo]

There was still some " change" of two state solution earlyer , but that train allready departure with the hamas terror event.


Mark Humphrys X

[argentus]

If this is true -- and I believe it is -- then Hamas/Gaza citizens are the enemy in my world.   It has often been apparent to me.   Hamas attacked Israel in a particularly brutal manner in order to provoke a response.    That response was a no-brainer, because there is no other response to those who slaughter your people.   Hamas wants to provoke WWIII, believing that the West and Western allies will be vanquished, along with Israel.   

U.S. President is waffling, trying to appease both sides.   We need a president with chutzpah, one with sand and resolve.   We don't need a president that kisses up to the oppressors.  This is serious business.   

No, I don't want WWIII.   If someone attacks my family, my island, my country, I will fight them with everything I have with the goal of their complete destruction.   It is true -- for me -- on a personal level, a community level, and a national level.   I wish humanity could all magically get along and trade between themselves and have cooperative documents and policies in place and international bodies to assuage the drama and strife, but alas, we are not that evolved.   We are upper order primates, but yet not so far from the Savannah in which we were evolved.   

No wonder the aliens don't want to have a sit-down with us.   We are quirky and unpredictable and not to be trusted.   

I fear this is all going to culminate in a global nuclear war.   I kind of feel there is no help for it.   I also feel this has happened before in Earth's history.   Don't worry about Mother Earth.   She has been through worse than this.   She will survive this also, and hope for a better quality of surface creatures.

[xpert11]

There was still some " change" of two state solution earlyer , but that train allready departure with the hamas terror event.

Mark Humphrys X

One possibility is integrating Gaza into Israel. Palestinians who aren't known terrorists swear an oath to Israel and have the right to live and work in that country. Also, those Palestinian children would attend schools where they are taught the merits of co-existing with their neighbours.

The only remote chance for the two-state solution is if a splinter group in the West Bank breaks away from the Palestinian Authority, like Bangladesh, which is an offshoot of East Pakistan.

[Kenzo]

One possibility is integrating Gaza into Israel. Palestinians who aren't known terrorists swear an oath to Israel and have the right to live and work in that country. Also, those Palestinian children would attend schools where they are taught the merits of co-existing with their neighbours.

The only remote chance for the two-state solution is if a splinter group in the West Bank breaks away from the Palestinian Authority, like Bangladesh, which is an offshoot of East Pakistan.

I think it would be good if that kind of integrating would work , would not be easy to have trust to each others again...but if they really think the current situation , it would be much better for all sides .

I never knew Bangladesh was once part Pakistan ...yes that`s other possibility. I dont know how much there is hamas supporters in West Bank.

[xpert11]

Kenzo, the biggest issue with the integration approach is what happens to the Palestinians who refuse to change their stripes. Israel pursuing ethnic cleansing against those Palestinians isn't morally an acceptable option under any circumstances. But beyond that matter, Gaza's neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, won't give the Palestinians impacted by the ongoing fighting the time of day.

So, Hamas supporters who remain loyal to the cause might find themselves stateless while remaining in Gaza. They might turn to other terrorist organisations to earn money if they are unemployed. Although out of their sheer hatred for Jews, they would likely see them join the next Hamas.

[Kenzo]

Kenzo, the biggest issue with the integration approach is what happens to the Palestinians who refuse to change their stripes. Israel pursuing ethnic cleansing against those Palestinians isn't morally an acceptable option under any circumstances. But beyond that matter, Gaza's neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, won't give the Palestinians impacted by the ongoing fighting the time of day.

So, Hamas supporters who remain loyal to the cause might find themselves stateless while remaining in Gaza. They might turn to other terrorist organisations to earn money if they are unemployed. Although out of their sheer hatred for Jews, they would likely see them join the next Hamas.

It`t big complicated mess .

I dont cheer for the violence that is now going on there . But It´s bit difficult to say how could Israel continue if they wont clean Gaza , cleaning Gaza means also that other than hamas people die also , it`s war and hamas created the scenario that they hide in civilian population , so i have no answers how Israel can do the operations without going there and destroy houses etc..

Israel has also allready returned territories/withdrew from different locations earlyer, even tryed to make deal land for peace...but allways all opposing sides refuse deals .

Myths & Facts Borders and Boundaries


I wish common sense would win there , they can continue killing each other next 100 years with this mentality and then nothing change ...

Not sure how much Iran has power to say what hamas do....i read Iran have command center in Sanaa Yemen...and they did go crazy there also..

[FlyersFan]

One possibility is integrating Gaza into Israel. Palestinians who aren't known terrorists ...

I can't see that happening.  The 'Palestinians' and Hamas are of one mind.  The vast majority of 'Palestinians' support Hamas.  And from what we have seen, they are actively engaged in activities against Israel.  You may have 'Palestinians' who technically aren't terrorists, but their hearts and minds are with them.   There is a reason that both Egypt and Jordan won't allow 'Palestinians' into their countries.  Even the Muslims don't trust them.

[Spiramirabilis]

'Only Graveyards Will Be Named After Netanyahu' | Thousands Protest Across Israel Against Netanyahu's Government

Thousands attended demonstrations in Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jerusalem, and outside Netanyahu's private residence in Caesarea. Bereaved sister: 'The values on which this country was built were replaced by political survival, bickering, and incitement'

Not everyone sees it your way - not even in Israel. People tell themselves little stories all the time - to make themselves feel better about what's happening. What's happening is a crime against humanity. 25,0000 dead - and the the entire region bombed into an uninhabitable state

This isn't justice - it's an abomination:
 

At Tel Aviv, Noam Alon, the sister of Capt. Dor Sade who was killed on October 7, said, "Our grandfather, Yitzhak, was a combat medic in the armored corps, and was killed in the Yom Kippur War. Exactly 50 years have passed, and again a surprise ... again 'we didn't know,' again, 'we were not told'. The values that led Dor and my grandfather, the values on which this country was built, were abandoned. These were replaced by political survival, bickering, and incitement. But this is not our fate, we have the power to change and fix it. This government needs to go home now."

I understand why you're posting this. Everyone needs to feel like this is acceptable. It is not acceptable