Elections are no longer about presidents

[DBCowboy]

. . . . they are about ideology.

Way back when, we used to be able to pretend that both parties wanted the same thing, they just had different ways of going about it.

That's all gone now.

We want different things now.

Some want freedom, others welcome a soft tyranny.

"Soft tyranny is an idea first developed by Alexis de Tocqueville in his 1835 work titled Democracy in America.[sup][1][/sup] It is described as the individualist preference for equality and its pleasures, requiring the state – as a tyrant majority or a benevolent authority – to step in and adjudicate.[sup][2][/sup] In this regime, political leaders operate under a blanket of restrictions and, while it retains the practical virtues of democracy, citizens influence policymaking through bureaucrats and non-governmental organizations.[sup][3][/sup] This is distinguished from despotism or tyranny (hard tyranny) in the sense that state of government in such democratic society is composed of guardians who hold immense and tutelary (protective) power.[sup][4]"[/sup]
Soft tyranny - Wikipedia

That's why people will vote for a convicted felon vs a dementia-riddled old man.

Their either voting against the opponent's ideology or for their own.

[MykeNukem]

- I may not agree with what you say, but I'll die defending your right to say it.
- I may not agree with your politics, but we'll have a race and whoever wins, wins.
- I may not agree with your religion or beliefs, but I'll die defending them.
- I may not agree with your political leanings, but I'll never use my office as a punishment tool.
- I may not agree with your sexual preferences, but, you do you, I'll mind my business, you mind yours.


WTF happened to the above?

Slow boiled..

 

[DBCowboy]

- I may not agree with what you say, but I'll die defending your right to say it.
- I may not agree with your politics, but we'll have a race and whoever wins, wins.
- I may not agree with your religion or beliefs, but I'll die defending them.
- I may not agree with your political leanings, but I'll never use my office as a punishment tool.
- I may not agree with your sexual preferences, but, you do you, I'll mind my business, you mind yours.


WTF happened to the above?

Slow boiled..

 

Serious truth there!

[Maxmars]

I think it's more than the politicians.... it's the theater.

What we may "believe" the politician stands for is the determinant... and in the end it translates to what the politician can 'make you believe.'  To that end the entire party uses tools of persuasion like memes, political hackery, and sloganeering...  all to make you believe.

But the politician is not the "leader" in most cases.  The party is not the politician, and their support requires "concessions."  Those concessions always straddle the line between tyranny and reason.  When we lost the fourth estate to the highest bidder (in terms of "free speech - "money") we lost most of the potential for an "informed public."  Now it is they who disseminate misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies... all for a "patriotic" cause - if you ask them.  Disagree, and you're not patriotic.  Agree and your sheeple.

Now we see pink slime sites professing 'truth' about political aims... and most people eat it up, consuming it as they have been conditioned to do for generations.

I would like to vote for leadership... but that's not actually on the ballot anymore... only the "show."

[DBCowboy]

I think it's more than the politicians.... it's the theater.

What we may "believe" the politician stands for is the determinant... and in the end it translates to what the politician can 'make you believe.'  To that end the entire party uses tools of persuasion like memes, political hackery, and sloganeering...  all to make you believe.

But the politician is not the "leader" in most cases.  The party is not the politician, and their support requires "concessions."  Those concessions always straddle the line between tyranny and reason.  When we lost the fourth estate to the highest bidder (in terms of "free speech - "money") we lost most of the potential for an "informed public."  Now it is they who disseminate misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies... all for a "patriotic" cause - if you ask them.  Disagree, and you're not patriotic.  Agree and your sheeple.

Now we see pink slime sites professing 'truth' about political aims... and most people eat it up, consuming it as they have been conditioned to do for generations.

I would like to vote for leadership... but that's not actually on the ballot anymore... only the "show."

It's too late to vote for leadership.

We can only vote for ideology now.

[FlyingClayDisk]

I think it's more than the politicians.... it's the theater.

What we may "believe" the politician stands for is the determinant... and in the end it translates to what the politician can 'make you believe.'  To that end the entire party uses tools of persuasion like memes, political hackery, and sloganeering...  all to make you believe.

But the politician is not the "leader" in most cases.  The party is not the politician, and their support requires "concessions."  Those concessions always straddle the line between tyranny and reason.  When we lost the fourth estate to the highest bidder (in terms of "free speech - "money") we lost most of the potential for an "informed public."  Now it is they who disseminate misinformation, disinformation, and outright lies... all for a "patriotic" cause - if you ask them.  Disagree, and you're not patriotic.  Agree and your sheeple.

Now we see pink slime sites professing 'truth' about political aims... and most people eat it up, consuming it as they have been conditioned to do for generations.

I would like to vote for leadership... but that's not actually on the ballot anymore... only the "show."

You speak of "theater" frequently when it comes to politics.  I choose to see it a different way...money and power.

These "idiots" may love the limelight, but they are "idiots" none the less.  "Thespians", as you have called them...they are nothing of the sort!  They are merely greedy, needy, "little people" who don't have any other existence in our society other than politics...they are PARASITES!  Purely, and simply...PARASITES!  Evil vermin who have no mission greater than bettering themselves.  This isn't about the "show", this is about "THEM", and ONLY "them".  Period.

I've grown tired of this notion there is some sort of "theater" going on here, or the notion there are any "thespians" at all behind it.  Simply put, these people at the forefront of politics today are CRIMINALS...every...last...one...of...them!  Period!!

Okay, I'll admit something here...I like Trump more than I like Biden because I believe Trump is one person....Biden is not even real, he's multiple things; Biden is the BORG!  So yes, I will vote for the "lesser to two evils", BUT in this case, it truly IS the lesser of two truly "EVILS".

You have a choice.  You can choose ultimate stupidity, and not knowing who you are really selecting as the leader of the strongest nation in the free world, OR, you can at least elect someone you can touch, someone you can impeach.  You can't do this with Biden.  Why?  Because he's not REAL, he just isn't!  Biden is a puppet, and someone "else" is pulling Biden's strings....someone YOU did NOT elect!

[Maxmars]

You speak of "theater" frequently when it comes to politics.  I choose to see it a different way...money and power.

These "idiots" may love the limelight, but they are "idiots" none the less.  "Thespians", as you have called them...they are nothing of the sort!  They are merely greedy, needy, "little people" who don't have any other existence in our society other than politics...they are PARASITES!  Purely, and simply...PARASITES!  Evil vermin who have no mission greater than bettering themselves.  This isn't about the "show", this is about "THEM", and ONLY "them".  Period.

I've grown tired of this notion there is some sort of "theater" going on here, or the notion there are any "thespians" at all behind it.  Simply put, these people at the forefront of politics today are CRIMINALS...every...last...one...of...them!  Period!!

Okay, I'll admit something here...I like Trump more than I like Biden because I believe Trump is one person....Biden is not even real, he's multiple things; Biden is the BORG!  So yes, I will vote for the "lesser to two evils", BUT in this case, it truly IS the lesser of two truly "EVILS".

You have a choice.  You can choose ultimate stupidity, and not knowing who you are really selecting as the leader of the strongest nation in the free world, OR, you can at least elect someone you can touch, someone you can impeach.  You can't do this with Biden.  Why?  Because he's not REAL, he just isn't!  Biden is a puppet, and someone "else" is pulling Biden's strings....someone YOU did NOT elect!

I suppose it's tiresome to hear me characterize the political 'arena' as theater again and again.

But it comes from my hypothesis that most popular politicians primarily exist to convince voters to vote for them.  The party is all about 'support' whether it be informed or otherwise... and lately it seems it's mostly otherwise.  I mean, the political place holder is there so people can 'relate' to something other than lofty thoughts or ill-conceived ideals.  They are selected by the party expressly to make you think they are "one of us" (or at least "just like us.")  That they "understand" and agree with all those things we cherish, and they oppose whatever we reject as a group... (otherwise who would vote 'for them?')

In that regard, they are actors (just like thespians) who follow "direction" and perform "on stage."  What you "see" is what they want you to report to others, always.  They have "prestige" just like entertainers do... and they "sell" support for their party, (their narrative.)  Voters consume them.  Like a product.  I also suppose that some of them actually 'believe' in something, although I wouldn't 'guess' what that might be.

Parties don't "want" specific people for the jobs they fill... they just want jobs filled with "their" people.  People who will "follow" their policy suggestions, promote "their" favorite programs, protect "their" preferred policies, and attack those they reject.  "The people" are not in the equation outside of appearances. 

"Ideologies" as important as they may be, are are used as window dressing for the show.  The people ultimately in 'charge' aren't focused on ideology, they are focused on a script provided by the 'director' and 'producers.' ("It's a club, and [we] ain't in it." - GC)

The parties are broken.  They represent no one you or I know.  They are like a toxic frat house culture... akin to Hollywood.

I'll match your admission..., I can't think of a single reason to prefer Biden over Trump.  But I had thought Biden was a joke candidate, having  made his bones as a plagiarist and a liar back in his early days... he was a running gag on mainstream media for years... then the media did an 'about face' because of TDS.  Whereas Trump, to me, has always had the appeal of being a "not-politician."  But that doesn't mean he couldn't be just as much a "performer" as other politicians... It was just a club that 'he wasn't in." (Clearly, he was unwelcome by many 'members.')

Criminality, I prefer to attribute on a case-by-case basis.  It's certainly in the mix.  But I can't say that they are all criminals, or to what degree each of them are or aren't.  We may never know the full truth, since they protect the "stage" as well as themselves.  But the most frustrating part, to me, is the fact that there are people of the "not elected" variety that make the most significant trouble for us.

[FlyingClayDisk]

 

Max,

For the record, my reference to "You have a choice" (and what followed) at the end of my previous post was not referring to you personally.  It was just a rhetorical reference to people in general.  In retrospect, I should have said "People have a choice"

After re-reading my post I can see how it might be interpreted differently, and I just wanted to clarify that phraseology was not directed at you personally.

Good discussion, as always.

P.S. Haven't been feeling well today, and in my haste I misspoke.  Apologies.

[Maxmars]

No apologies necessary... oddly, I have been feeling rather "off" myself.

Be well.

[Creaky]

- I may not agree with what you say, but I'll die defending your right to say it.
- I may not agree with your politics, but we'll have a race and whoever wins, wins.
- I may not agree with your religion or beliefs, but I'll die defending them.
- I may not agree with your political leanings, but I'll never use my office as a punishment tool.
- I may not agree with your sexual preferences, but, you do you, I'll mind my business, you mind yours.


WTF happened to the above?

Slow boiled..

 

Not sure that’s entirely correct anymore, sounds good for an earlier generation who had leadership who cared about the people, had a set of principles the majority agreed with
Those ideals are now dead
I disagree with many peoples opinions and the right they espouse and I will not die fighting for those I deem unworthy
The US army can’t get recruits, many think the same

And let’s be honest, what has gone on these past 5 years and nobody has done anything
Words?

Modern society is a cauldron of opposing idealism