Columbia University has fallen

[putnam6]

First of all, FCD Im just discussing this, It's not a matter of me accepting anything it's called a discussion. I have no problem with the thread morphing into the broader Israeli/Palestinian question but, suffice it to say there is plenty of straw being strewn in this thread. 

Im not making wild proclamations all Im doing is bringing the discourse on the topic Ive seen elsewhere to Deny Ignorance and discuss with people who mostly want to hear their opinions. These types of informative discussions are no longer possible in other places. No more no less. 

It is not my intention to irritate you or get you worn out over this, this isn't Im right about your wrong situation, I value your opinion even if I disagree on some points. Im not trying to change anybody's mind all the while Im open that I could be wrong. 

So respectively here are my responses 

The article below was just from December, certainly not all Palestinians actively support Hamas, but enough do that it's a real threat to Israel. Thats the REALITY of whether it's acceptable to anybody

Unless one prescribes to any means necessary argument, which tries to rationalize and validate 10/7. This attitude is prevalent across our campuses and definitely in the Middle East.

Respectfully there was no way Israel could have sent SF units to find the hostages and rescue them, without incurring huge losses specifically because ENOUGH Gazans and Palestinians support Hamas which makes it dangerous as hell for a limited and surgical operation. 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-...3844bc4514
 Palestinian poll shows a rise in Hamas support and close to 90% wanting US-backed Abbas to resign 

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — A wartime opinion poll among Palestinians published Wednesday shows a rise in support for Hamas, which appears to have ticked up even in the devastated Gaza Strip, and an overwhelming rejection of Western-backed President Mahmoud Abbas, with nearly 90% saying he must resign.
The findings by a Palestinian pollster signal more difficulties ahead for the Biden administration’s postwar vision for Gaza and raise questions about Israel’s stated goal of ending Hamas’ military and governing capabilities.
Washington has called for the West Bank-based Palestinian Authority, currently led by Abbas, to eventually assume control of Gaza and run both territories as a precursor to statehood. U.S. officials have said the PA must be revitalized, without letting on whether this would mean leadership changes.
The PA administers pockets of the Israeli-occupied West Bank and has governed Gaza until a takeover by Hamas militants in 2007. The Palestinians have not held elections since 2006 when Hamas won a parliamentary majority.

 
Here's another more recent article..

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...024-06-13/Poll shows rise in support by Palestinians for armed struggle

RAMALLAH, West Bank, June 13 (Reuters) - Support for armed struggle as the best means to end Israeli occupation and achieve statehood rose among Palestinians while backing for the militant group Hamas also increased slightly in the last three months, according to an opinion poll.
The poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PSR) showed support for armed struggle climbed by 8 percentage points to 54% of those surveyed in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Support for Hamas rose by 6 percentage points to 40%. Fatah, led by President Mahmoud Abbas, had 20% backing.

I was under the impression that Mandatory Palestine was rejected by the Arab population in 1948, thus the problem. 

but it's this quote that concerns me, it skews the reality that all sides the Palestinians and Hamas including both routinely deploy delaying tactics, misrepresentations, and outright lies.  

Want it to end?  release the hostages, Im sure plenty of Palestinians know exactly where they are.

We can argue a percentage are scared or intimidated, but not all. Respectfully if it's 10% that's 230,000 Palestinians celebrating 10/7 too the extreme. 

Much like the Palestinians in UNRWA not all were complicit but enough are that it seriously hinders any semblance of what it's supposed to accomplish in Gaza. The same goes for whatever percentage of Palestinians support Hamas, all those tunnels from Rafah to Egypt weren't going to the Bedouin, somebody was supporting Hamas from Egypt, are they part of the negotiations? 

RESPECTFULLY sure it can, which side has stalled negotiations more since October? hell Ive seen Israel accept proposals recently where Hamas pulled back. 

However, this can not be a prerequisite to negotiations.  Release of the hostages, yes, but eradication of Hamas, no, this will require more time, and delaying negotiations with this expectation is just a ruse for not negotiating at all.

Ive got more a little more

such as snap your fingers BOOM the Palestinians have complete autonomy in the 1948 Mandatory Palestine what happens with Israel? Let's not pretend Jews are assimilated into Arab countries even close to the degree Muslims are assimilated in Israel. So we negotiate and are we supposed to naively believe there won't be terroristic attacks once the Palestinian statehood is established, and the inevitable Israeli responses? 

here's where I do get stuck and I can't get past it FCD

If you think you are worn out imagine the parents of these women, it's hard for a father in me to get past this. Id Ross Perot this shit if my daughter was left behind for Pally statehood negotiations, at least the Iranians didn't do this yes some of the women were soldiers, but it's still no excuse or rationale to violate the Geneva Convention if you want to be recognized with statehood. None, zero, zip, nada. 

How do you negotiate with that while it's still occurring?  

Im of the opinion Hamas had no idea that 10/7 would garner them so many captives, one reason they had to hide them with UN Doctors and according to your posts ordinary Palestinians. That 10% 250,000 approximately seems to be complicit. 

https://nypost.com/2024/06/14/world-news...tive-says/

The mother of a female Israeli soldier being held captive by Hamas says one of the freed hostages told her that her daughter and the other kidnapped women had been used as slaves to serve the terrorists inside luxury villas.
Shira Albag, whose 19-year-old daughter Liri Albag was kidnapped on Oct. 7, said she spoke to newly rescued hostage Noa Argamani to learn about what her daughter was going through, the Times of Israel reports.
“Noa said that they were slaves, and so were the [female soldiers], including Liri,” Shira said in a statement. “They cleaned the yard, did dishes and prepared food that they were not allowed to eat.

Liri and the four other female soldiers featured in the video are among the some 120 hostages who remain in Gaza more than eight months into the war.
While Israel believes that more than 70 of the hostages are alive, Osama Hamdan, a top Hamas official, claimed Thursday that “no one has any idea” how many hostages are still alive.

---

The hostage issue must be resolved immediately on both sides.

That said, it's not only Hamas that has hostages. Israel has been detaining without trials thousands of political prisoners and thousands of ordinary Palestinians over the years. Even to this point in time.

Ita an occupying force of an open air prison or concentration camp, you can use any expression you want. The latter I think came from Dr Finkelstein who is a Jewish intellectual and academic and highly critical of the Zionist regime and Zionism as a political movement.

Israel is an apartheid state and it's not a coincidence South Africa accuding them of genocide and various other crimes.

They know very well what is to be living under an apartheid regime where one group of people have been continuously dehumanised. The prerequisite to the war crimes committed against them and genocide.

With reference to the thread I made on Julian Assagne, I am sure if he was around in the last few months, wikileaks would be busy with what's happening in Gaza and the West Bank. Just as he exposed the war crimes commited by the US he cound easily expose the war crimes committed by Israel. There is so much material ready for him and others who expose all sorts of crimes and wrongdoings but on the other hand most of them hwve been exposed despite the zionist lobby and their buddies on MSM trying to cover them up.

So tell me again about luxury car dealerships in open-air prisons and concentration camps? Hell Ive seen worse suffering in Mississippi and scarier places in New Orleans, Atlanta, Charlotte, Richmond, DC, and Philly and Chicago.