06-26-2024, 02:09 PM
This post was last modified 06-26-2024, 02:13 PM by FlyingClayDisk. 
(06-26-2024, 10:59 AM)putnam6 Wrote: Then what...
I am going to try to summarize several points here because it's getting too busy for line item responses. I am going to summarize what I think you're getting at in a broader sense, distill it down, and then respond to it.
1. How can the world let Sinwar and Hamas get away seemingly scott free and still negotiate with Israel and the Palestinians? Sinwar and Hamas need (heavily) to be punished first.
Response - This is a fundamental point; you have to accept the Palestinians (in total) do not equal Hamas. I know this is hard, but there is no, repeat zero, hope of a solution short of eradication of all Palestinians by Israel if people refuse to differentiate between Hamas and the Palestinians. Just zero. There is absolutely no solution possible. So, if this is Netanyahu's position, then he might as well get on with it; officially declare war on the balance of Mandatory Palestine, tell the world his intentions, and then set about laying all non-Israeli controlled territory to waste. This is the "Kill them all" solution. (This solution will make a couple members here very happy, tragic and twisted as that is). There is no other solution than this if Netanyahu refuses to differentiate between the two people. Period.
Now, that said, what to do about Sinwar and Hamas(?) As I have said (tirelessly), Hamas are terrorists. Sinwar is their leader; he is also a terrorist. The Sinwar/Hamas issue is a separate matter and needs to be dealt with separately. I have already outlined how you separate Hamas from the Palestinians, so I'm not going to type all that again. I have also laid out the absolute conditions for Palestinian participation in the negotiated settlement between Israel (so I'm not going to type that again either). The Palestinians go one way to the negotiating table, and Hamas goes the other way to whatever depraved, disgusting, hole they crawled out of, AND they get pursued like the terrorist dogs they are to the ends of the Earth...and they get exterminated. However, this can not be a prerequisite to negotiations. Release of the hostages, yes, but eradication of Hamas, no, this will require more time, and delaying negotiations with this expectation is just a ruse for not negotiating at all.
2. What keeps other terror organizations from hijacking other parts of the world and holding people hostages so they get the same deal?
Response - This is a several part answer, and this is also a straw man (I don't care for straw men). First, you have to understand the difference between Mandatory Palestine, the original players and all these other groups you refer to. Per the 1948 UN Resolution (yes, the Arabs didn't sign it, but this is irrelevant because this situation is not why), only Irsrael and the Palestinians were outlined in this document (hence the name). None of the other terrorist organizations you've noted had any involvement or claim in this document. The UN Resolution covers a finite territorial area, and includes a finite number of peoples/religions/cultures.
Second, any similar action by these other groups you note would be considered an outright declaration of war on any country they tried to pull a stunt like that and they would be retaliated against, rightfully so, and vaporized. Two completely different situations, and that's all the further I am going to go speculating about straw men (all due respect).
3. Surgical Rescue/Strike missions (in other countries like Mexico) would be impossible.
Response - This is another straw man. The odds would be tall, yes (in some generic other country, not Mexico. However, this is the only option short of officially declaring War on the host country. Just like Israel and the Palestinians, those are the only two options. (I'll get to Mexico in particular in a moment)
4. What about Mexico?
Response - Okay, Mexico in particular has far too large of a vested economic interest from the U.S. to ever allow something like you suggest to happen. The economic impact alone would turn Mexico into Sudan. So a Hamas-like terror invasion and hostage event coming from Mexico would not happen. And, the reason it wouldn't happen is because both the U.S. AND Mexico (regardless how corrupt and begrudging) would quickly, and jointly, stomp something like that out of existence. Plus, Mexico doesn't surround the U.S.. Thirdly, because there is a defined and undisputed border between Mexico and the USA (despite appearing to be swiss cheese) any such invasion by Mexico would be a clear Act of War, thus the Mexican government would either have to sanction it, or fix it...like overnight! This would never happen.
5. Final thoughts (by me)
You've asked a flurry of questions, and I have tried to answer them honestly. We can go through "what if?" arguments until we both grow old, but they are straw men. I have tried to respond directly to the Palestinian / Israel crises with the bulk of these responses and/or comparisons in context.
Lastly, I have tried to demonstrate through my answers that there is not a 5 minute solution to the Israeli / Palestinian conflict, and I have tried to do this with due-diligence in honest and non-confrontational responses both for you and others who may read this. Please understand that the finest points of detail cannot possibly be covered on a forum like this, but at least the general framework can be discussed. The other thing which is important to keep in mind is two general things:
1. It is unrealistic for Israel to expect the entire globe to reach utopian perfection on every single issue before they should be asked and/or be willing to come to the bargaining table. And,..
2. It is unrealistic for the Palestinians, the Israelis or anyone, else to accept anything less than universal condemnation of Hamas as a terror organization who should be hunted down and brought to bear for their crimes against humanity. And, any and all parties who sit at any negotiating table for territory and/or statehood in Mandatory Palestine need to publicly ratify and publicly condemn Hamas. There can be no exceptions.
Hopefully you can accept this as my reply. I'm worn out.