Civilization collapse

[Sirius]

One of the happy hunts I went on looking for an egg suggested that we should be seeing the collapse of a civilization now.

All other cycles has completed.  There has even been signs in the sky.

The problem I have is how would you actually tell if a civilization collapsing today? Feels like everything is going down the shitter and hard to tell in this totalitarian world that we live in how bad who really has it. I know allot allot allot, of people has it really bad.  There are no quick fixes, just another 100-200 years of misery.

Civilizations in the past was also smaller and there has been small cultures wiped out recently. Maybe old cycles doesn't apply any more and the world just constantly spirals down the drain.

I don't see humanity entering a new age at present. We are still barbaric, literal dark age fears abound. Instead of moving towards unity we fracture into silo's. Always competing.

[UltraBudgie]

There is no such thing as linear change. Never has been, never will.

[Maxmars]

I don't cherish being the dissenter to your thread proposition, but unfortunately I must.

Humans have never - ever - lived in an age where somebody wasn't crying out that it was the end of everything we know and love on the horizon.

Since the dawn of social memory, all humans pine for the 'better days of the past' and downright lust after the glory of a 'new age.'

Civilization is a difficult and hazy subject.  We have collectively flowed as groups of people into larger and larger aggregations, often suffering from traditional antipathies and quests for irrelevant and impotent revenge.  All the while pointing out all the wrongs of the world around us... and very frequently determining as a group(?) that the best solution is destruction of the offenders.

But how does one actually define "a civilization?"... Might it not be that civilizations disappear and appear as they morph and transmute?  Is the end of civilization not the actual start of a new one... one which may already be natively embedded within the population?  Maybe even coexisting under it all?

Perhaps not. 

But that is also among the possibilities of this "order" of civilization... it may not end... it may just change into something it could never be before (good or bad.)

This has always been the case. 

Yet here we are.

[Sirius]

I don't cherish being the dissenter to your thread proposition, but unfortunately I must.

Humans have never - ever - lived in an age where somebody wasn't crying out that it was the end of everything we know and love on the horizon.

Since the dawn of social memory, all humans pine for the 'better days of the past' and downright lust after the glory of a 'new age.'

Civilization is a difficult and hazy subject.  We have collectively flowed as groups of people into larger and larger aggregations, often suffering from traditional antipathies and quests for irrelevant and impotent revenge.  All the while pointing out all the wrongs of the world around us... and very frequently determining as a group(?) that the best solution is destruction of the offenders.

But how does one actually define "a civilization?"... Might it not be that civilizations disappear and appear as they morph and transmute?  Is the end of civilization not the actual start of a new one... one which may already be natively embedded within the population?  Maybe even coexisting under it all?

Perhaps not. 

But that is also among the possibilities of this "order" of civilization... it may not end... it may just change into something it could never be before (good or bad.)

This has always been the case. 

Yet here we are.

Yup, there is always a new civilization that replaces the old. Not proclaiming the end or anything like that here.

Most of what you are saying is nonsense though, convince the father and mother that has lost their children that it's the start of something new.  You know this not the way the world works. 

People are cruel, self centered and brutal.

[Maxmars]

"Nonsense?"  I'll try and not take offense.

I suppose the "mother and father" of civilization might not accept the change without pain.  And any such characters are just as much "not the way world works."

But only hubris-filled narcissists would imagine themselves the architects and/or engineers of a "civilization."

[quintessentone]

One of the happy hunts I went on looking for an egg suggested that we should be seeing the collapse of a civilization now.

All other cycles has completed.  There has even been signs in the sky.

The problem I have is how would you actually tell if a civilization collapsing today? Feels like everything is going down the shitter and hard to tell in this totalitarian world that we live in how bad who really has it. I know allot allot allot, of people has it really bad.  There are no quick fixes, just another 100-200 years of misery.

Civilizations in the past was also smaller and there has been small cultures wiped out recently. Maybe old cycles doesn't apply any more and the world just constantly spirals down the drain.

I don't see humanity entering a new age at present. We are still barbaric, literal dark age fears abound. Instead of moving towards unity we fracture into silo's. Always competing.

Imagine what humanity could achieve if we all worked together for common goals.

[UltraBudgie]

There is a name for uncontrolled exponential growth and that is cancer. Perhaps look upon the forces retarding that as a feature rather than a bug. Part of the system.

[Sirius]

"Nonsense?"  I'll try and not take offense.

I suppose the "mother and father" of civilization might not accept the change without pain.  And any such characters are just as much "not the way world works."

But only hubris-filled narcissists would imagine themselves the architects and/or engineers of a "civilization."

Sorry, nonsense as in we are talking past each other.  Don't stress about. All good.

[quintessentone]

One of the happy hunts I went on looking for an egg suggested that we should be seeing the collapse of a civilization now.

All other cycles has completed.  There has even been signs in the sky.

The problem I have is how would you actually tell if a civilization collapsing today? Feels like everything is going down the shitter and hard to tell in this totalitarian world that we live in how bad who really has it. I know allot allot allot, of people has it really bad.  There are no quick fixes, just another 100-200 years of misery.

Civilizations in the past was also smaller and there has been small cultures wiped out recently. Maybe old cycles doesn't apply any more and the world just constantly spirals down the drain.

I don't see humanity entering a new age at present. We are still barbaric, literal dark age fears abound. Instead of moving towards unity we fracture into silo's. Always competing.

All great empires rise and fall and history will repeat itself unless smart leaders can avoid the fall, but avoiding the fall is not as easy as we might think. John Glubb, historian, who studied the rise and fall of empires throughout history, simplistically states that empires rise and fall every 250 years. That claim is being challenged today because the factors involved, today, are said to be very complicated.
 

The first step is better wealth distribution. If we are all—as a nation—in it together, then we should all be sharing both the burdens and the benefits.

https://quillette.com/2020/09/30/pasha-g...f-empires/

I've been repeating that sentiment all along - that the trickle down economics does not work and it needs to change.

Take the Minoan civilization as an example of a society enjoying a long and fruitful existence and sharing the pie, so to speak:
 

AI: The Minoan civilization, flourishing on the island of Crete during the Bronze Age (roughly 3000-1100 BCE), was a sophisticated Bronze Age culture known for its advanced art, architecture, and extensive trade networks across the Mediterranean

It seems it took a volcanic eruption to cause it's fall.

I find this topic very interesting as it can be a study in politics, economics, culture etc. - the whole gambit of human struggle for progress for all.

[Byrd]

One of the happy hunts I went on looking for an egg suggested that we should be seeing the collapse of a civilization now.

All other cycles has completed.  There has even been signs in the sky.

The problem I have is how would you actually tell if a civilization collapsing today? Feels like everything is going down the shitter and hard to tell in this totalitarian world that we live in how bad who really has it. I know allot allot allot, of people has it really bad.  There are no quick fixes, just another 100-200 years of misery.

Civilizations in the past was also smaller and there has been small cultures wiped out recently. Maybe old cycles doesn't apply any more and the world just constantly spirals down the drain.

I don't see humanity entering a new age at present. We are still barbaric, literal dark age fears abound. Instead of moving towards unity we fracture into silo's. Always competing.

A very pertinent question, and if you look at history, the "collapse of civilization" means one went away...but many others on the planet were doing just fine.

So, if the USA fell into a black hole or the US and Russia bombed each other into flat land, Australia, New Zealand, and a lot of other places  (Brazil, Argentina, Africa, India, Great Britain) would take over.  The idea of an "everybody falls into Mad Max scenario" is based on some early Cold War science fiction, where the atomic bomb basically sets off a panetwide reaction in the atmosphere and flattens the heck out of the landscape.

Here in the US there's an attitude that "every other country/civilization is too backward to maintain modern civilization.  That's a silly concept, for as of now many top research labs are NOT in the US and much of our manufacturing is done overseas and the US research colleges are starting to see a brain drain like happened in China with the Mao revolution.