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Alternate Location of Eden Thread
#1
There may be linguistic clues from historical names and a language which is still similar to the language which all Europeans and West Asians used to speak 5000 years ago.  

The languages of Europe, West Asia, and northern India are almost all based on an extinct language called Proto-Indo-European which was apparently spread all over western and central Eurasia by a people called the Yamnaya because they left their genetic signature everywhere their language inspired the local languages.  

Despite not primarily being Yamnayan, Lithuanians still speak an ancient language similar to Proto-Indo-European.  There are Yamnaya among all the people of Europe but Europeans including Lithuanians are primarily descended from previous migrations into Europe.  

The Yamnaya expansion is thought by archaeologists to not have been violent but may have been caused by their resistance to the bubonic plague.  PBS Nova claimed 90% of Europe and West Asia's previous inhabitants were wiped out during the Yamnaya expansion 5000 years ago but there are no signs of warfare from this time.  

Anyway, "paradise" is a Persian word.  Persian at the time might have sounded a lot more like Proto-Indo-European than modern Farsi.  It sounds like "porų daržas" or "garden of pairs." 

Perhaps some of those ancient kingdoms used slaves to keep minions educated but controllable?  What if they used slaves to teach their people how to..."ištart" or to speak or pronounce words? Herodotus was wrong about most of the details about the worship of Ishtar but the priests of Ishtar may have been slaves who worked in a "garden of pairs," feeling no pain or even the slightest need, teaching the king's minions basic skills. 

Perhaps the king knew of some primitive way to take away rapport with slaves and thus kept his minions in line?  Because if they didn't do what he said, he'd induce his "gods" or educational slaves to do some form of "proto-yoga" and break their rapport with their people, and suddenly, the king's minions would find themselves unable to even talk to each other clearly?

Perhaps the people had been told their slaves actually were gods or priests of gods from Nibiru?  Who had floated to Earth just like those sweet sweet pineapples which would drift to shore every now and then after a storm?  Perhaps they had hats like priests of An, which had cow horns arranged like pineapples?  Or, as some people would say, "Ananasai?" Corrupted into "Annunaki?" 

The king who started the worship of An was called "Gudea" which is the ancient name of the Gothic people.  Perhaps he was an interloper or a slave?  Yes, a king can be a slave.  He has to get to know his people disgustingly well, then he can tell them what they're doing wrong.  

Anyway, what if two people involved in teaching some ancient kingdom's minions how to speak had realized they were being exploited and were just ordinary folk?  What if they got kicked out of their "porų daržas" and had to get ordinary jobs?  Remember, at one point everyone in Europe and West Asia could probably speak a language descended from Yamnayan, or Proto-Indo-European.  Maybe after they left the service of the king, they recovered their former ancestral tongue?  In other words, they need not have been from the land of the Goths.  They could have been locals who were caught up in some ancient kingdom.  Basque, Finnish, Hebrew, and Welsh languages are unrelated to Proto-Indo-European, for example.  

What if, generations later, one of their descendants studied spirituality and figured out how to keep a human soul together and prevent or reduce unwanted rapport?  What if he had been employed in the manufacture of statues of his relatives, the remaining priests and priestesses of An?  Which he then freed with his epiphanies?  Suddenly, they would have lost much of their verbal ability and started to.....babble?

The conclusion is that there could have been a "paradise" in every larger village of whichever ancient empire is being written about, or perhaps just one in the capital.  Perhaps Babylon?
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#2
Genesis 2:10-14: Describes a river flowing out of Eden, splitting into four rivers. The Pishon, Gihon, and Tigris are identified, with the Euphrates being named as the fourth.

AI:
"The Four Rivers: The four branches are:
  • Pishon: This river was identified by some scholars as potentially referring to the Wadi al-Batin, a dry riverbed in the Arabian Peninsula.
  • Gihon: This river's exact location is debated, but some believe it might be the Nile.
  • Hiddekel (Tigris): This is the name of the Tigris River, which is a well-known geographical feature.
  • Phrath (Euphrates): This is the name of the Euphrates River, another well-known geographical feature.
"Possible Interpretations: Some scholars have speculated that the four rivers may have been meant to symbolize a broader geographical area or even a spiritual concept."

Could Eden have been meant as a spiritual concept. It's interesting to mull that one over.
"The real trouble with reality is that there is no background music." Anonymous

Plato's Chariot Allegory
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#3
(Yesterday, 09:42 AM)quintessentone Wrote: Genesis 2:10-14: Describes a river flowing out of Eden, splitting into four rivers. The Pishon, Gihon, and Tigris are identified, with the Euphrates being named as the fourth.

AI:
"The Four Rivers: The four branches are:
  • Pishon: This river was identified by some scholars as potentially referring to the Wadi al-Batin, a dry riverbed in the Arabian Peninsula.
  • Gihon: This river's exact location is debated, but some believe it might be the Nile.
  • Hiddekel (Tigris): This is the name of the Tigris River, which is a well-known geographical feature.
  • Phrath (Euphrates): This is the name of the Euphrates River, another well-known geographical feature.
The four rivers could have simply been fountains in a garden in Babylon where a few Priests of the god An lived, which was the religion allegedly started by the Annunaki. (See post above for explanation of the Annunaki.)

They need not be major rivers from prehistory, just a fountain diverted from the Tigris or Euphrates to be a part of the ceremonial garden, then returning to it.  

The rivers you mention don't connect to one another except the Tigris and Euphrates.
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#4
(Yesterday, 10:36 AM)Solvedit Wrote: The four rivers could have simply been fountains in a garden in Babylon where a few Priests of the god An lived, which was the religion allegedly started by the Annunaki. (See post above for explanation of the Annunaki.)

They need not be major rivers from prehistory, just a fountain diverted from the Tigris or Euphrates to be a part of the ceremonial garden, then returning to it.  

The rivers you mention don't connect to one another except the Tigris and Euphrates.

Did they connect at one time, if we are to believe the Bible described Eden's location via these rivers?
"The real trouble with reality is that there is no background music." Anonymous

Plato's Chariot Allegory
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#5
(Yesterday, 10:50 AM)quintessentone Wrote: Did they connect at one time, if we are to believe the Bible described Eden's location via these rivers?

KJV does say one of the rivers "encompasseth Ethiopia" but there is no river which connects to the Euphrates and even enters much less encompasses Ethiopia.  Perhaps "Ethiopia" was a community of East African traders in Babylon?  

I am thinking the actual garden may have been a manmade garden in the middle of Babylon.  It may have been only a few acres large.  It may have been a religious shrine to the Priests of An. 

The river may have simply been a small spring which watered the garden and was then allowed to flow by various routes to the Euphrates. 

When Moses wrote the Pentateuch, it was many generations later.
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#6
(Yesterday, 12:52 PM)Solvedit Wrote: KJV does say one of the rivers "encompasseth Ethiopia" but there is no river which connects to the Euphrates and even enters much less encompasses Ethiopia.  Perhaps "Ethiopia" was a community of East African traders in Babylon?  

I am thinking the actual garden may have been a manmade garden in the middle of Babylon.  It may have been only a few acres large.  It may have been a religious shrine to the Priests of An. 

The river may have simply been a small spring which watered the garden and was then allowed to flow by various routes to the Euphrates. 

When Moses wrote the Pentateuch, it was many generations later.

If we are to believe that Genesis was just a moral story then why describe locations of places at all? It does not make sense, once again to think of the Bible as being allegorical when specific descriptions are given.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biblical_places

Scholars have speculated where the Garden of Eden may have been or that it was a spiritual concept. They nor theologians can come to agreements of facts, so I'll leave it there.

Then again, Sodom discovered?:

"But last week — and again this week — on THE ROSENBERG REPORT, I sat down for an exclusive interview with Dr. Steven Collins, the archaeologist who claims that he and his team have actually uncovered the Biblical cities of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Kingdom of Jordan."

"“There's so much specific information about the location of these cities that you would practically have to be blind and illiterate not to be able to find the location of Sodom because there are at least 25 known pieces of geography that you can triangulate between to take you to the city of Sodom. It's not difficult,” stressed Collins, author of “Discovering the City of Sodom.”"

https://allisrael.com/did-sodom-and-gomo...erg-report
"The real trouble with reality is that there is no background music." Anonymous

Plato's Chariot Allegory
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#7
(Yesterday, 01:17 PM)quintessentone Wrote: If we are to believe that Genesis was just a moral story then why describe locations of places at all? It does not make sense, once again to think of the Bible as being allegorical when specific descriptions are given.
It is an account passed down to Moses through several generations. 

No, you cannot conclude it's either moral allegory or sets out to describe locations which outsiders can find on a world map, which they didn't have in Biblical days. 

Moses could be describing a garden the size of a city park with a spring in it which fed into the Euphrates via four routes.  The spring and the routes could be so small that they would only have been known to locals.  They could be long gone or they could be re-routed long ago.
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#8
(Yesterday, 02:25 PM)Solvedit Wrote: It is an account passed down to Moses through several generations. 

No, you cannot conclude it's either moral allegory or sets out to describe locations which outsiders can find on a world map, which they didn't have in Biblical days. 

Moses could be describing a garden the size of a city park with a spring in it which fed into the Euphrates via four routes.  The spring and the routes could be so small that they would only have been known to locals.  They could be long gone or they could be re-routed long ago.

How accurate and complete, without it being open to different interpretations, do you think this 'passing down' of truth or stories could be?
"The real trouble with reality is that there is no background music." Anonymous

Plato's Chariot Allegory
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